Another new Brexit thread

[journolud]

Remain must not be included in a confirmatory referendum about what sort of leave deal we want. "Leave by remaining"? How is that an option to leave the EU?

Round and round we go. You don’t think it’s possible that public opinion has shifted and it’s democratic to test that?

 

[purplenose]

Not if hard-won worker's rights are being trashed, and I'm not even a Labour voter..

I was taking the piss.

 

[Ban-jani]

To be honest, I didn't think you had said it!

I said it once or twice when he announced his Customs depots idea.

I didn’t expect him to make such concessions he has to be honest.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Round and round we go. You don’t think it’s possible that public opinion has shifted and it’s democratic to test that?

If the referendum had been sold as a "twice-in-a-lifetime" vote, then yes. Public opinion has shifted, yes, because most people just want it done one way or the other. The most democratic action, if you want another vote, is to set in law that we have a referendum every few years and put proper rules around implementing the result. I'm sure the EU would love one of their members doing that.

 

[Damocles]

Round and round we go. You don’t think it’s possible that public opinion has shifted and it’s democratic to test that?

Doesn't this question equally apply to every referendum and election in history, one day after they happened?

 

[lancs blue]

I was taking the piss.

Sorry, it's hard to tell on this thread!

 

[Coatigan]

A 2nd referendum should only be implemented if parliament can not find a way through.

If Johnson gets a deal and it passes, there’s no need to have another vote.

Actually, i agree with thst logic.

But given the nature of the deal, being vastly different, i see the need. And i doubt it'll pass without at least an attempt at an amendment to include a 2nd ref.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Which means, that after three and and a half years, that those who vote against it, are clearly placing themselves
with the LibDems and want it scrapped altogether. This, as sure as eggs is eggs, will rile the majority of the populous,
and it will be goodnight Vienna to them at the next GE. In fact, many must be cacking themselves as we speak, this
is certainly not good news for Tittyfarious and her crew.
Whatever, Johnson has increased his kudos no end here, not amongst many I know, but all this 'He was never going for a deal'
bullshit is looking a bit silly now.

It’s labour mps in leave areas that are screwed. There entire argument was they didn’t want no deal. Now we have a deal which is perfectly reasonable.

If they vote against it - it goes against their constituencies and what they have said previously

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Doesn't this question equally apply to every referendum and election in history, one day after they happened?

Yes - which is why we have regular votes in our representative democratic system.

If this 'deal' is agreed subject to a 2nd ref i would take that. It is so far removed from the sunlit uplands / all the cards BS of 2016 it should be put to a vote. If it gets approved in a 2nd Ref then as a nation we get what we deserve.

 

[The blue phantom]

Well you can still get 3/1 for us to leave on the 31st October. And 11/10 to leave this year.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

This isn’t the case.

I’m glad a deal has been reached but all he’s done is take a deal already on offer from the EU.

They offered May the Irish Sea border 2 years ago and she said no.

From what I’ve read we’d be outside the customs unions completely (norther Ireland slightly different) and the single market completely. A free trade agreement is very different to mays deal

 

[M18CTID]

Well you can still get 3/1 for us to leave on the 31st October. And 11/10 to leave this year.

Worth a punt?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Are the full details out anywhere to view?

Not yet mate, we've got ideas of the basics. I'm sure they will be by Saturday when parliament sits

 

[lancs blue]

It’s labour mps in leave areas that are screwed. There entire argument was they didn’t want no deal. Now we have a deal which is perfectly reasonable.

If they vote against it - it goes against their constituencies and what they have said previously

They can vote against it with a clear conscience if worker's rights are being seriously eroded - and they should be able to convince their constituents that it's the right thing to do.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

It’s your money mate, do as you see fit.

I’m just going off the original ref.

There is a possibility of sterling going south under the scenario of the deal not being passed by parliament but only if the conclusion to that from Borris is to exercise and threaten the nuclear option of no deal which he surely will when pitching to parliament before the vote. If he continues with that rhetoric on Monday sterling will slide again despite him being a bull shitter - virtually every other scenario puts a floor on sterling at these levels in my opinion extension, G.E, 2nd ref assuming its this deal and remain

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...-is-no-deal-uk-minister-jenrick-idUSKBN1WW0W2

I don't get it :/

 

[dave_blue12]

True, but remember some on here said he didn't even want a deal. Not aimed at you by the way!

This is potentially a route to no deal.

Then Benn Act requires a lawful agreement to be put to Parliament to avoid having to ask for an extension.

This agreement could satisfy the Benn Act, get voted down by Parliament (likely) and lead to a no deal exit.

Except the proposed WA is unlikely to be lawful as it will contravene Section 55 of the Trade Act 2018 which prohibits a British Government treating any part of the UK differently in terms of trade and regulatory framework. This amendment was drafted by non other than the ERG.

Court action is being initiated to prevent Johnson bringing an unlawful WA before Parliament.

I posted about this many pages back but it was lost in the detritus of this thread (as well this post may be)

It is also worth pointing out the the Withdrawl Act 2018 set out procedures and time frames for both the Lords and Commons to properly scrutinise any agreement. This cannot be complied with given the time frame.

There should be an extension but Johnson will do anything to avoid 'dying in a ditch'.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Pounds just dropped. Pound would strengthen if parliament votes it down. You’ve got it the wrong way around mate.

Pound has actually been rising this week with the prospect of a deal.
People not liking uncertainty perhaps?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Well workers rights was inevitably going to be destroyed as that’s a key reason why the likes of Rees-Mogg and Gove want Brexit.

Extinction rebellion are on board with the deal as none of them are interested in work anyway.
More and more are getting on board ;)

 

[Gabriel]

If Johnson has a 'new' deal with the EU, then he has evidently had to compromise, which might suggest that he'll be prepared to compromise in Parliament, too. If he's not prepared to have a vote on it until he's sure of winning, I wonder if he will perhaps countenance a subsequent referendum. Won the last one with half his heart in it, might fancy his chances again.