Another new Brexit thread

[blueinsa]

Both sides need to have a veto. I think I tried to explain this before.

They do. Both able to vote yes or no.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Quick question. If we left with no deal at all would we have a hard border between the two Irelands ?

Only if the EU erected one.

 

[mcfc1632]

Yes but they offered this to May in 2016 and she sounded out DUP and Tory opinion and the likes of JRM called it “cretinous”, due to NI being in a separate agreement.

I’m not saying it’s the same as May’s, I’m saying it was offered by the EU in 2016.

This isn’t anything Johnson has done, other than make concessions and take it.

You do miss the main point(s)

Yes - the Irish Sea option was there years ago - so fucking what!!

Since then the EU has secured the all-UK unfettered backstop - far far better for the EU and, in particular Ireland, than this deal - so they have now had to go back to a previous good position - rather than a:

"Utterly fucking wonderful position that fell in their lap and was the best ever thing they could hope for"

Yep - Robbins and May were that shit

Top tip - if you ever find yourself having to do serious negotiations (not just the admin) - delegate upwards or downwards

 

[BlueAnorak]

Anyone know what our settlement bill is, no change there in this deal?

£33bn.
£13bn per year of transition + £7bn on conclusion of a deal.
I think we actually get back £4bn a year back from EU subsidies and other payments.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Steady. You don’t want to oversell it.

It's a done deal NI does pretty well if they see it free trade with the EU and any and all future deals made by the UK include them.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Slightly off topic but just heard that arch brexiteer and full time ****, John Redwood, is apparently MP for a heavily remain constituency.

Oh goody

 

[Ban-jani]

It does raise the terrifying spectre of a fortified hard border like the Norwegians Swiss have. Can't see that working.

Norway and Switzerland are in EFTA and Switzerland is in Schengen.

EFTA is closer to EU membership than any other agreement and means you’re in the Single Market.

If you think no deal is anything similar to that then you need to click out of this thread, the politics sub forum, off topic, log out of the entire forum and smash your laptop over your head.

 

[Len Rum]

UVF not happy and planning protests and demos according to the Times.
Also reports UDA waiting to study the details of the deal before announcing their stance.

 

[Ban-jani]

You do miss the main point(s)

Yes - the Irish Sea option was there years ago - so fucking what!!

Since then the EU has secured the all-UK unfettered backstop - far far better for the EU and, in particular Ireland, than this deal - so they have now had to go back to a previous good position - rather than a:

"Utterly fucking wonderful position that fell in their lap and was the best ever thing they could hope for"

Yep - Robbins and May were that shit

Top tip - if you ever find yourself having to do serious negotiations (not just the admin) - delegate upwards or downwards

Congratulations on once again scrolling back through pages and pages and missing the actual discussion.

My point was that I’m not going to wank Johnson’s dick off for him bending over and going for something offered by the EU 24 months ago.

 

[mat]

Boris treating Norn Iron like Trump treats Kurds.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Only if the EU erected one.

lots of happy truckers here as they zip through.................on no they are stopped and x-rayed. Have we installed that equipment yet? I understand this is a much much quieter border than the NI/ROI one too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world...what-can-the-uk-learn-from-norway-s-eu-border

 

[west didsblue]

Congratulations on once again scrolling back through pages and pages and missing the actual discussion.

My point was that I’m not going to wank Johnson’s dick off for him bending over and going for something offered by the EU 24 months ago.

You wouldn’t get near. There’s three or four from here fighting over it already.

 

[1.618034]

In some ways, the Benn Act was boris' biggest blessing. It forced him off a pigheaded no-deal dick swinging fight into compromising to the EU offers. But he has got a deal, even if it was already on offer, and that does deserve recognition.

If "compromising" means caving in completely to a position that Theresa May said was, "Something no British prime minister could ever accept". Then, yeah. It's a compromise.

What it definitely does, is compromise our union.


Brilliant.

 

[mcfc1632]

To be fair, and I'm not blowing smoke up his arse here, he came into power something like 100 days before the 31st October deadline. Granted, that's a deadline that he set himself but 100 days was never going to be enough time to come up with something completely fresh so it was always going to be a re-hash of May's deal or a resurrection of some other deal.

You are preaching to the hard of being willing to look in a mirror and 'fess up to being wrong

They all gave him absolutely no fucking chance whatsoever of achieving what has been achieved

And of course......

They now cannot bring themselves to 'fess up that they were wrong when he has achieved far more than they forecast could be achieved - so shallow

Personally I think Johnson is a bit/lot of a **** - I do not have a great deal of time for him

But, I can admit that he has achieved things that people gave him no chance of achieving

That so many on here cannot man up and do the same - IMO - speaks more about them than Johnson

FFS man up you guys

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Some MPs obviously worried about no deal may support him to get this over the line but once it's done the electorate might like to hand this poisoned chalice on to someone else.

Doubt that. If he delivers brexit I think he will win a big majority. It renders the Lib Dem’s pointless as stopping brexit is pretty much there only slogan now.

It also means he’ll be the first politician in a long time to have actually kept his promise and delivered on the referendum. Whilst also killing off the brexit party

All ifs so far though and just a prediction

 

[west didsblue]

You are preaching to the hard of being willing to look in a mirror and 'fess up to being wrong

They all gave him absolutely no fucking chance whatsoever of achieving what has been achieved

And of course......

They now cannot bring themselves to 'fess up that they were wrong when he has achieved far more than they forecast could be achieved - so shallow

Personally I think Johnson is a bit/lot of a **** - I do not have a great deal of time for him

But, I can admit that he has achieved things that people gave him no chance of achieving

That so many on here cannot man up and do the same - IMO - speaks more about them than Johnson

FFS man up you guys

And you reckon you know about negotiations. Don’t make me fucking laugh.
Johnson has caved in totally to EU demands and has crossed all the red lines his predecessor said were non-negotiable.
Fortunately for him the right wing press are on his side and are happy to overlook the fact that this deal, if it goes through, marks the beginning of the end of the UK as a union of four countries now that NI has its own arrangements. And mugs like you will go along with it either because you are gullible fools or have a secret hard on for the ****.
As for admitting being wrong, after the Benn bill went through and the attempts to circumvent it failed it was nailed on he’d get an agreement, and it was always going to be through caving in. My previous posts have explained this.

 

[Postman Pep]

If "compromising" means caving in completely to a position that Theresa May said was, "Something no British prime minister could ever accept". Then, yeah. It's a compromise.

What it definitely does, is compromise our union.


Brilliant.

All delivered by the Conservative and Unionist party .....

 

[The blue phantom]

Slightly off topic but just heard that arch brexiteer and full time ****, John Redwood, is apparently MP for a heavily remain constituency.

This is what I don't get, quiet a lot of the leavers on here keep saying Labour MP's in Leave constituencies must vote with the government this Saturday, otherwise they are Shafting the people they represent.

What's the Leave voters thoughts on the Tory remain constituencies, How should their MP vote on Saturday?

 

[mcfc1632]

This is potentially a route to no deal.

Then Benn Act requires a lawful agreement to be put to Parliament to avoid having to ask for an extension.

This agreement could satisfy the Benn Act, get voted down by Parliament (likely) and lead to a no deal exit.

Except the proposed WA is unlikely to be lawful as it will contravene Section 55 of the Trade Act 2018 which prohibits a British Government treating any part of the UK differently in terms of trade and regulatory framework. This amendment was drafted by non other than the ERG.

Court action is being initiated to prevent Johnson bringing an unlawful WA before Parliament.

I posted about this many pages back but it was lost in the detritus of this thread (as well this post may be)

It is also worth pointing out the the Withdrawl Act 2018 set out procedures and time frames for both the Lords and Commons to properly scrutinise any agreement. This cannot be complied with given the time frame.

There should be an extension but Johnson will do anything to avoid 'dying in a ditch'.

Fuck I saw this and got excited!!!!

Could you be right????

And then - I considered your track record on being right.....

Oh well - fuck it - we can only hope

 

[mcfc1632]

MP's didn't get a say on EU trade deals so what has changed.

We will elect the MP's who do have a say.

Well done

So casually shot another stupid scare story down