Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
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dave_blue12 said:
Who knows which side he's playing but he is playing.

Come Dec 2020 somebody is not going to be happy.
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Found myself thinking the same.
I don’t trust what’s going on. Someone is getting played but I’m not sure who.

The only thing is, whatever happens I’m guessing NI are likely to be left with the decision of the deal/no deal or stay aligned to the EU.
To stay in the EU it would most likely be a choice of a GFA border poll at that stage.

What the rest of the UK decide at that stage doesn’t concern me so much.
 
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What a double act!
 
Gabriel said:
Just watched Laura Kuenssberg apparently ‘grill’ Boris Johnson, well that’s how the BBC describe it. Sous vide more like. God give us someone like Brian Walden.
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Was she flicking her bean for Boris as usual?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
I don’t mind a short extension to read it if they can’t tonight (?) but we have had 5 years of this and we have to move on.its time for pragmatism

The discussion tomorrow will be

I respect the referendum but [ I don’t really]

You will not drag Scotland out of the eu against its will

People’s referendum

The same thing as has been said for the last 3 and half years since the vote.
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Can sense why Leavers such as yourself are getting frustrated, but I genuinely think the most pragmatic thing is to not rush this through at short notice, which I suspect is what Johnson is hoping happens because the more you analyse the deal, the more holes in it start to appear.

It would be an absolute dereliction of duty if Parliament didn’t scrutinise the details of such an important bill properly.
 
Ric said:
Can sense why Leavers such as yourself are getting frustrated, but I genuinely think the most pragmatic thing is to not rush this through at short notice, which I suspect is what Johnson is hoping happens because the more you analyse the deal, the more holes in it start to appear.

It would be an absolute dereliction of duty if Parliament didn’t scrutinise the details of such an important bill properly.
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But we need it done, might affect your traffic to the site though ;)
 
mcfc1632 said:
Ha - sorry - I was aiming my post at people that understand just how valuable the UK-wide unfettered backstop was to the EU - and therefore people that understand just how much the EU have conceded ground.

I should have perhaps explained that
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As usual you appear to be totally unaware or are pretending to be unaware that the backstop was a UK proposal that was there to prevent different parts of the UK being treated differently. The EU have conceded nothing. We have just erased one of our red lines and gone back to an EU proposal from years ago.
 
Ric said:
I think we’re straying from the original point a bit here though. You asked why the Letwin amendment was necessary as you felt no deal had been taken off the table, but clearly a number of MPs are concerned that it hasn’t in the long term. Perhaps understandably in the light of some comments today.I do think that such a monumentally important piece of legislation can’t be rushed through in a few hours tomorrow. It must be properly scrutinised and discussed in Parliament, even if that means a short extension.
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I agree with Stephen Bush on this as with much else:-
'Oliver Letwin has tabled an amendment to the government’s Brexit motion that would, effectively amend it so it welcomed the government’s Brexit deal, but would fall short of the wording required by the Benn Act, thereby compelling the government to seek an extension to the Brexit process.

What does it mean if it passes? Well, I think it really depends on how Downing Street decides to play it. I now think they have the votes to pass the deal through Parliament and it is at least possible that means they can also simply see off the Letwin amendment (though the perverse outcome where Labour rebels kill off the Letwin amendment and Conservative opponents of no deal then vote down Boris Johnson’s deal cannot be ruled out, and in many ways is the quintessential Brexit outcome).

But the government could react to losing the Letwin vote by declaring the neutral motion an indicative one, declaring victory or defeat as necessary and either moving onto its Brexit deal passing or its “Brexit’s great under the Conservatives, don’t let Jeremy Corbyn block or delay it” general election campaign.

I simply don’t believe that, given that Boris Johnson has actually negotiated a Brexit deal that it will be a significant event in the life of the country if it becomes legally operational on 4 November rather than 31 October, not least because we will be in a standstill transition anyway. Given that he tried to suspend Parliament, lied to the Queen and double-crossed the DUP to get a deal, I am thoroughly unconvinced that the line that he has gone soft on Brexit is going to land in an election even if that election takes place while we are still EU members, so I see no reason why the government wouldn’t just declare victory and trundle on.

The other option of course is that the government could interpret losing the Letwin amendment as a thumping defeat, withdraw the motion, seek an extension and go to the country on a “they’re blocking our lovely deal!” ticket and hope for the best.'

But I think in practice the question of “what does it mean if the Letwin amendment passes” is one that the government will decide.
 
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