Ilkay Gundogan - 2019/20 Performances

[WallyA]

He isn’t his best when he plays with Dave but it’s undeniable that he doesn’t score or assist when he plays as an 8 and look what Dave did today...he sealed the game. It’s not fair to make it into a dave/Gundogan combo issue when it’s a Gundogan issue because dave impacts goals. I’d keep my mouth shut and accept Gundogan as a squad player but we have strong evidence that Phil puts up the end result like Dave does.

Okay I understand you point, I should elaborate more that I think David and Gundogan can play together just not as 8s together (so like today).

But honestly, if the issue is he can't play as an 8 with Dave, then if he HAS to play 8, then play with Kevin, otherwise play him as a 6. Doesn't that seem better?

Edit: I don't think he is the best as an 8, I am more arguing for him as a 6.

 

[domalino]

That’s what’s inferred and is also factual. We had another great game with him outside of the position in question. I think it’s lazy that Silva gets lumped into the equation when Gundogan gets put into question.

You may have inferred it (wrongly), but it wasn't implied. It's also hilarious to talk about laziness and then ignore the fact Gundogan/KDB and Gundogan/Bernardo has worked very well as 8 partnerships because it doesn't fit your narrative.

So we know KDB/Silva works, KDB/Gundogan works, Bernardo/Gundogan works, Silva/Silva works. Silva/Gundogan? Doesn't work. Results and team performances back all of that up.

So the issue is the combination.

 

[WallyA]

As an aside to this convo, Id like to say it is simply interesting to discuss our teams dynamics and which players play best together

 

[WallyA]

You may have inferred it (wrongly), but it wasn't implied. It's also hilarious to talk about laziness and then ignore the fact Gundogan/KDB and Gundogan/Bernardo has worked very well as 8 partnerships because it doesn't fit your narrative.

So we know KDB/Silva works, KDB/Gundogan works, Bernardo/Gundogan works, Silva/Silva works. Silva/Gundogan? Doesn't work. Results and team performances back all of that up.

So the issue is the combination.

To summarize, your saying this is what works:

David/Gundogan-------Bernardo/Kevin

This is every combination you showed.

 

[domalino]

To summarize, your saying this is what works:

David/Gundogan-------Bernardo/Kevin

This is every combination you showed.

Yeah I mean Foden can play with anyone from what we've seen, and I think Bernardo can play with Kev, but Pep is certainly very hesitant to play them together.

 

[ADegenerate]

You may have inferred it (wrongly), but it wasn't implied. It's also hilarious to talk about laziness and then ignore the fact Gundogan/KDB and Gundogan/Bernardo has worked very well as 8 partnerships because it doesn't fit your narrative.

So we know KDB/Silva works, KDB/Gundogan works, Bernardo/Gundogan works, Silva/Silva works. Silva/Gundogan? Doesn't work. Results and team performances back all of that up.

So the issue is the combination.

I’m all for the debate and I think it’s healthy to have it. I wish I had more time to delve into it so I might just have to @ you later on.

I’d like to to delve into the data here but throwing KDB in with anybody negates any combo there. If you could do me the favor look up the sample of Silva/silva / + Bernardo/gundogan total game as dual 8s? I’d say it’s less that 15 games total and likely majority cup games. Obviously if that was a valid combination we’d have never dropped bernardo (our PotS) for Mahrez while still playing Gundogan nearly every game as an 8. So Bernardo isn’t really an option at 8 for us.

To further strengthen my point I’ve made it abundantly clear the data shows that Ilkay doesn’t contribute at anywhere near the ratio of Phil/Dave/Bernardo/Kev does and whether you like data or hate it (general point to readers not you) it’s the ultimate metric. He ghosts as an 8 with the eye test and completely does so with the data regardless of who he plays with. It’s irrefutable. Our system more than any other in the world (hyperbole) relies on our 8s putting up numbers.

The point being the data merges with those who are frustrated and being a neutral aligns the two.

 

[Wretched Vengeance]

 

[Deleted member 77198]

He’s like a different footballer when the game is in front of him when he’s deeper in midfield.

Has more time on the ball and his back isn’t to goal so he can see and read the play better. He just doesn’t have the back to goal instinct for a pass for me when he’s further forward and finds it hard to cover ground when having to get back from the edge of the opposition’s box compared to when he’s already in position in the centre circle.

He’s a reasonable to average attacking mid, he’s a very accomplished to excellent deep lying playmaker.

 

[mcfc482]

Always looks good in the deeper role.

 

[St.Pauli support]

Classy assists. In open matches like this he puts opponents to the sword.
Great form.