Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

Just the ones who’ve lied to the Queen.

To the Tower all of them!!

It certainly would boost it as a tourist attraction. 'Look little Johnny, there are the beefeaters, there are the Ravens and look, there is Johnson in his Dungeon'

 

[west didsblue]

I suppose my feeling is that Boris comes in for a lot of over the top criticism because his opponents recognise that he’s a formidable operator. He was dealt a terrible hand by Theresa May, Brexit Party cashing in on frustration with her incompetence, Tory Party obliterated in the European election, opinion poll ratings through the floor, Brexit on it’s last legs, now just 3 months later, he stands on the brink of getting his deal through and has a comfortable lead in the opinion polls. This is an amazing achievement. Yes, some unconventional tactics have had to be used, but there are occasions in life when being nice, playing safe, gets you nowhere, and he was faced with a Remainer Parliament and speaker that were prepared to get down and dirty so he fought fire with fire.
If he gets this through, he ensures the mandate from the referendum is delivered and I agree with him that this nation will never begin to heal until this happens. We move on to the next stage, which is the agreement of a mutually beneficial best in class free trade deal with our friends and neighbours, and the relationships that have been built up with the likes of Varadkar and Macron can be built upon to ensure we learn the lessons of the last few years. By then, he will in my opinion have a workable majority so he can also focus on his domestic agenda and the country can move on.
Then we find out whether the predictions of doom and gloom about life outside the EU are accurate, and my view is that they will be proven to be false, as we put in place free trade deals with the growing economies outside the EU. The EU can crack on with it’s superstate without the unhelpful Brits getting in the way, and we can watch on with interest how that project pans out, and those who still long to be part of it can campaign to rejoin.

Or because he tells demonstrable lies all the time?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yeah on a manifesto . Which doesn’t matter anymore

Where has Labours manifesto about a pro jobs Brexit been broken?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Where has Labours manifesto about a pro jobs Brexit been broken?

Meaningless statement

May as well say nice brexit , or lovely brexit

 

[Saddleworth2]

Meaningless statement

May as well say nice brexit , or lovely brexit

No. One that protected workers rights would be a start. Johnsons deal certainly doesn't.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Or because he tells demonstrable lies all the time?

Get over yourself FFS. (a) That's a wild exaggeration and (b) what's patently obvious is that it's not the alleged lies you object to, it's the fact that you don't agree with him. Corbyn hasn't stopped telling whoppers since he became leader, and yet I don't hear the same objections to those.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Meaningless statement

May as well say nice brexit , or lovely brexit

Or Brexit means Brexit.

 

[blueparrot]

Meaningless statement

May as well say nice brexit , or lovely brexit

Or brexit with a customs union. Whats so bad about a Brexit with a customs union. Apart from it needing FOM and protections of workers rights which is why tories don’t like it. Why would Labours CU Brexit be bad ?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Get over yourself FFS. (a) That's a wild exaggeration and (b) what's patently obvious is that it's not the alleged lies you object to, it's the fact that you don't agree with him. Corbyn hasn't stopped telling whoppers since he became leader, and yet I don't hear the same objections to those.

I’ve told @west didsblue a million times to stop exaggerating.

 

[blueinsa]

No. One that protected workers rights would be a start. Johnsons deal certainly doesn't.

How do you know?

Details haven't even been shown to the MP's or so they claim?

It was actually remarkable yesterday listening to hours of what was wrong with the deal whilst they moaned they hadn't seen it.

Do you think our Parliament post brexit and out fo the EU would be responsible for ensuring workers rights?

To quote Starmer yesterday when it was pointed out we protect more holiday pay than the EU does, "well we wouldn't countenance as a parliament lessening rights"

Bingo Kier, bingo!

Its the next in a long line of scare stories remain is using to get what it wants.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Meaningless statement

May as well say nice brexit , or lovely brexit

Just so you can tell what a helpful chap I am, here are the six tests Labour have specified:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

 

[Rascal]

Yeah and parliament saying to hell with the people we don’t want to respect the referendum result, nor have a general election .

Not sure what is democratic about that either

It is the definition of representative democracy, they are acting with their conscience because they were not delegated to act on the referendum result, it was not constituency based which makes all the people talking about MPs who represent constituencies that voted one way or the other being a load of nonsense. The referendum could have included legislation which on the issue forced MPs to act as delegates for their constituencies, whether that would have passed in Parliament is another point because it would have eroded the rights of MPs to act with free will as they are representatives. Again we get back to the poorly thought out referendum act and the arrogance of Cameron and Osborne thinking they would win. It was shoddy, ill thought out and the prospect of losing and the effects of it were simply not considered.

It is now well within MPs remit to oppose a GE since the passing of the Fixed Parliament Act. Before that it was up to the PM to call a GE as the PM saw fit, the act took away that power from the Executive and handed it to the legislature, which is far more democratic than an election called on the whims of one person.

 

[west didsblue]

Get over yourself FFS. (a) That's a wild exaggeration and (b) what's patently obvious is that it's not the alleged lies you object to, it's the fact that you don't agree with him. Corbyn hasn't stopped telling whoppers since he became leader, and yet I don't hear the same objections to those.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...te-list-times-banana-brexit-bus-a8929076.html
Also Manx kippers, North Sea borders etc. etc.
Name another politician other than Trump and Farage who just makes shit up like he does.
Most dishonest politicians at least go to the effort of phrasing their falsehoods slightly ambiguously for plausible deniability.
Oh, and I also can’t stand Corbyn but don’t let that stand in the way of you pretending that anyone who dislikes Johnson must be a Corbyn lover.

 

[Saddleworth2]

How do you know?

Details haven't even been shown to the MP's or so they claim?

It was actually remarkable yesterday listening to hours of what was wrong with the deal whilst they moaned they hadn't seen it.

Do you think our Parliament post brexit and out fo the EU would be responsible for ensuring workers rights?

To quote Starmer yesterday when it was pointed out we protect more holiday pay than the EU does, "well we wouldn't countenance as a parliament lessening rights"

Bingo Kier, bingo!

Its the next in a long line of scare stories remain is using to get what it wants.

Here are the six tests Labour have specified:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

Johnsons deal doesn't guarantee 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. Maybe through proper scrutiny it will get closer but I tend to doubt it.

 

[blueinsa]

Just so you can tell what a helpful chap I am, here are the six tests Labour have specified:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

7. Does it frustrate brexit and allow us to say no to anything the government brings because we think we might have a chance of power if we do?

Im going for 7 but when offered the GE and chance of power he shit his pants and ran for the hills.

Sensible as he will lose badly and be kicked out.

 

[Rascal]

I suppose my feeling is that Boris comes in for a lot of over the top criticism because his opponents recognise that he’s a formidable operator. .

He is not, he is a clown act posing as a politician. A dreadful PM who should never be anywhere near power because for him its all about himself. Even his own brother recognises he is a fool ffs.

 

[blueinsa]

It is the definition of representative democracy, they are acting with their conscience because they were not delegated to act on the referendum result, it was not constituency based which makes all the people talking about MPs who represent constituencies that voted one way or the other being a load of nonsense. The referendum could have included legislation which on the issue forced MPs to act as delegates for their constituencies, whether that would have passed in Parliament is another point because it would have eroded the rights of MPs to act with free will as they are representatives. Again we get back to the poorly thought out referendum act and the arrogance of Cameron and Osborne thinking they would win. It was shoddy, ill thought out and the prospect of losing and the effects of it were simply not considered.

It is now well within MPs remit to oppose a GE since the passing of the Fixed Parliament Act. Before that it was up to the PM to call a GE as the PM saw fit, the act took away that power from the Executive and handed it to the legislature, which is far more democratic than an election called on the whims of one person.

Its not what MP's say when defending their positions rascal.

"My constituents have told me they want to remain, they want a ref, they want brexit respected, they want us to leave"

What it it? Do they represent their constituents or not?

Of course they do, they where voted in by them.

 

[M18CTID]

You would have a point if at the GE Labour had said they would not vote for any brexit deal the government brought and that the Lib Dems had said they would campaign for revoke and that numerous MP's would desert those manifesto promises and move party.

Exactly. It’s not the fault of the people that some of those they voted for have turned out to be duplicitous cunts. That’s not aimed at all of them of course but it’s quite clear that some of those in parliament are hell bent on stopping any kind of Brexit, rather than wanting No Deal off the table, or needing more time to scrutinise the deal Johnson has agreed with the EU.

It’s just a shame they haven’t got the fucking balls to admit it.

 

[west didsblue]

Just so you can tell what a helpful chap I am, here are the six tests Labour have specified:

1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

None of that matters because it’s nothing to do with democracy.

 

[Saddleworth2]

7. Does it frustrate brexit and allow us to say no to anything the government brings because we think we might have a chance of power if we do?

Im going for 7 but when offered the GE and chance of power he shit his pants and ran for the hills.

Sensible as he will lose badly and be kicked out.

Oh, you are clever, I see what you have done there, added a seventh point to Labours six!
The mistrust of Johnson throughout the HoC (Tories included) means there will be no GE called until the chances of a no deal brexit are nil. Lets see what happens once the extension has been granted.