Another new Brexit thread

[blueparrot]

Its been rejected.

I have heard every single SNP, Lib Dem, DUP, Green and many Labour MP's say they will reject any deal the government brings.

Its a charade.

Won't matter if they get the rebels plus Labour rebels onside. Can't see the DUP coming back though without unpacking the Irish border issue.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Hesseltine being interviewed on sky, bloody hell he hates Boris . Absolutely Hates him .

wont even say the tories would win an election if there was one

 

[blueinsa]

For one, I think extending the implementation would get through and be accepted by the EU. Especially now we will be extending to January and will only have 10/11 months to implement. Sure there are other bits that would be waved through.

How long does the extension need to be to satisfy the SNP and Lib Dems?

30, 40, 100 years?

They are not voting for any deal this Tory government brings.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

No you've not mate.
Originally proposed for Monday and Tuesday next week.
I mean Parliament was initially proroged for five weeks for this monumental event and so it is of course vital that this debate goes ahead otherwise it will look as if Liz was duped.

Ah, next week, is it? Thanks, thought it was this week.
As it happens, I will miss it. Woe is me.

 

[blueparrot]

How long does the extension need to be to satisfy the SNP and Lib Dems?

30, 40, 100 years?

They are not voting for any deal this Tory government brings.

What have the SNP or Liberals got to do with what passes ? They aren't the votes Johnson needs to attract.

 

[Len Rum]

Ah, next week, is it? Thanks, thought it was this week.
As it happens, I will miss it. Woe is me.

Never mind mate.
Very important this Queen's speech don't you know.
Parliament was proroged for five weeks to prepare for it and Liz had to get all dressed up to read it out.
Can't wait.

 

[hammocity]

General Election is inevitable, let’s get it done, BJ will piss it, I’m no fan but the Tories will select their candidates based on their support for Brexit. Not sure if JC had the same backing, however it will put this boring, expensive episode to bed.

The uncertainty has already cost industry in the UK, I’m talking through my pocket, it’s not fortunes but to my small business it’s hit me enough to make a dent. Others will be suffering much more, sick to death of it.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Never mind mate.
Very important this Queen's speech don't you know.
Parliament was proroged for five weeks to prepare for it and Liz had to get all dressed up to read it out.
Can't wait.

Oh, I know. It'll be seismic as they discuss something that will bring nothing into law in all likelihood.

 

[Mike D]

The comment was made that "most" of the ERG are fund managers, or have interests closely connected to fund managers.

So I asked which MPs and so far 1 has been named. Somewhat short of "most". Ergo, the statement was made up bollocks by someone with prejudiced view lacking any and all objectivity.

I think you need to catch a grip of yourself here chippy, one of them was a fund manager Crispin Odey has connections with the ERG not just but Johnson being the most obvious one and here's another 4 https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/07/22/boris-brexit-and-the-hedge-funds-part-2/
There is and has been a number of hedge fund managers and financiers backing the tory party or are you denying that? https://www.managementtoday.co.uk/city-gave-birth-brexit/long-reads/article/1649027
Maybe I can't go through every single donation's and connection to the ERG but it is undeniable the Tory party is backed by people in the city.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Its been rejected.

I have heard every single SNP, Lib Dem, DUP, Green and many Labour MP's say they will reject any deal the government brings.

Its a charade.

so how was it approved in principle last night then?

 

[blueinsa]

I think you need to catch a grip of yourself here chippy, one of them was a fund manager Crispin Odey has connections with the ERG not just but Johnson being the most obvious one and here's another 4 https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/07/22/boris-brexit-and-the-hedge-funds-part-2/
There is and has been a number of hedge fund managers and financiers backing the tory party or are you denying that? https://www.managementtoday.co.uk/city-gave-birth-brexit/long-reads/article/1649027
Maybe I can't go through every single donation's and connection to the ERG but it is undeniable the Tory party is backed by people in the city.

When having or being involved in a hedge fund is illegal in this country i might start taking notice of posts like this.

Martin Taylor of Nevsky Capitol was a big benefactor of Labour under Milliband.

So fucking what?

 

[Vic]

Did MP amendments get the WA changed Vic?

No is the answer and you know that.

Glad we finally agree on revoke and a GE.

Hopefully that will see a return of a majority leave parliament and we can get out.

MPs couldn't amend May's WA. We still end up with a different WA. And MPs made sure any WA needed Parliamentary approval in the first place.

 

[blueinsa]

so how was it approved in principle last night then?

By many who think they can amend and change it to suit.

It isn't amendable by Parliament, it is an international treaty that only the government and Brussles can change.

Once that dawns and it already has, they are not stupid and know the game they are playing they will then reject the deal.

 

[Mike D]

so how was it approved in principle last night then?

This is only the outline the principle that we have agreed to leave, the real fun is just about to begin where the amendments start to be voted. Fair play to Johnson he has achieved something May couldn't do after 3 attempts a lot of that has been down to getting the ERG on side which May had no chance with.

 

[blueinsa]

MPs couldn't amend May's WA. We still end up with a different WA. And MPs made sure any WA needed Parliamentary approval in the first place.

Christ Vic..

You're right they couldn't amend it.

It took Dublin and Brussels to do it.

 

[BobKowalski]

This deal isn't all it seems, it appears Johnson was lying yesterday in parliment about the fisheries policy as we won't have exclusive rights to our fishing waters. And adjudication on any trade disputes will be settled by the ECJ. The deal needs scrutiny.

That has been always been the intent ever since we told the EU we needed a status quo transition period over a year ago. And this need has been one of the driving forces behind the May deal and now this deal. The only difference between this deal and May’s is the EU are a lot keener on this one. The French are positively glowing about Johnson and happy to send out no A50 extension warnings to help him along.

Our original intent was to use transition as an implementation period for the new FTA we intended to agree with the EU by 2019. We have yet to open discussions. And if the last three years is anything to go by it will take anywhere up to a decade to negotiate and implement any new FTA, and just as the Withdrawal Agreement was shaped by the EU who got the divorce settlement, oversight on EU citizens for eight years after Brexit ie after transition and a customs border in the Irish Sea, the future relationship will be shaped by the EU.

Oh and during transition we have to negotiate how much money we pay in contributions. You want to bet against it being the full whack with no rebates?

 

[Saddleworth2]

By many who think they can amend and change it to suit.

It isn't amendable by Parliament, it is an international treaty that only the government and Brussles can change.

Once that dawns and it already has, they are not stupid and know the game they are playing they will then reject the deal.

I have already said I agree with you that the content of 'the deal' as it stands cant be amended without recourse to the EU. The indicative vote last night shows it has a chance of getting through though. There is likely to be devil in the detail and MP's have to understand that in deciding to support or not. There are other amendments to he bill that can be made without recourse though, like supporting it but insisting that it becomes part of a confirmatory referendum. Something like that would not need permission of the EU, only enough time to do it.

 

[Saddleworth2]

By many who think they can amend and change it to suit.

It isn't amendable by Parliament, it is an international treaty that only the government and Brussles can change.

Once that dawns and it already has, they are not stupid and know the game they are playing they will then reject the deal.

I have already said I agree with you that the content of 'the deal' as it stands cant be amended without recourse to the EU. The indicative vote last night shows it has a chance of getting through though. There is likely to be devil in the detail and MP's have to understand that in deciding to support or not. There are other amendments to he bill that can be made without recourse though, like supporting it but insisting that it becomes part of a confirmatory referendum. Something like that would not need permission of the EU, only enough time to do it.

 

[BobKowalski]

How long does the extension need to be to satisfy the SNP and Lib Dems?

30, 40, 100 years?

They are not voting for any deal this Tory government brings.

Let’s start with a realistic timeframe. 5 years minimum. We can work up from there.

 

[blueinsa]

There are other amendments to he bill that can be made without recourse though, like supporting it but insisting that it becomes part of a confirmatory referendum.

It isn't happening.

There are no amendments that will get through parliament and as an international treaty it cant be amended by MP's.

We are wasting time, going over the same old ground, kicking the same tin can.