Another new Brexit thread

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Saddleworth2 said:
I would add that anyone that believes a single word he says is short of mips.
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On the contrary, those short of mips are those who cannot that see what Johnson has been doing has been seeking to drive through a deal as best he can with the cards he's been dealt.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I don’t think any particular group is to ‘blame’ personally, and I feel that is hugely simplifying what is an extremely nuanced situation.

I do think we should leave as soon as possible, but slavish adherence to an arbitrary deadline, and curtailing of reasonable debating time, for what is such a crucial issue, are both absurd, and more about cock-waving than anything else.
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I agree a couple of weeks to get the drafting right and tighten things up would be fine but I fear this will be

amendment 1 second referendum

amendment. 2 Scotland having a separate vote

amendment 3 rewriting the agreement reached in Northern Ireland

and so on and so on ,

there will be those like Ken Clarke who will add value to the bill and there will be those who are there to downright cause a nuisance

as the agreement is merely being presented for ratification there can’t be a huge (if any) departure from its terms , otherwise we have to start again
 
Chippy_boy said:
On the contrary, those short of mips are those who cannot that see what Johnson has been doing has been seeking to drive through a deal as best he can with the cards he's been dealt.
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Yes, reverting to something that was previously offered by the EU whilst breaking a promise to the people of NI that there would never be a border in the Irish Sea is churchillian statesmanship. Open your eyes to what he is.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Pathetic.

I am sure you are clever enough to be able to understand what the word "lie" means, so I can only assume you are simply shit-stirring. For the avoidance of doubt, it is not a lie to say something which you fully mean to deliver, but are then PREVENTED from delivering by some other twat. You know this, so stop being disingenuous.

If I say I'll be at my Mum's by 3 O'clock and then there's an accident on the M6 and I don't get there until 4, have I lied? No.
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Johnson is either someone who shapes events or is victim of events. Ultimately he is a victim of events. The 31st Oct, no extension mantra was not forced on Johnson it was a pledge he tied himself too. Such was his desperation to meet his own self imposed deadline he sold out the Govts confidence and supply partners and ratted on his promise not to split our Union.

Hostage to fortune and all that.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Not at all. He is playing a bloody game with the country for his personal advancement and power. Which ditch is he in btw?
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No, you're just wrong on this one.

As a statement of fact, a lie is something that you say, KNOWING it to be untrue. You have zero evidence that he KNEW we would not be leaving on October 31st (for example, one of your quotes) and therefore you are WRONG to say he lied about it.

That's all there is to it. On this subject specifically, you are WRONG. No ifs, buts, maybes, misinterpretations, misunderstandings. Just wrong.
 
BobKowalski said:
Johnson is either someone who shapes events or is victim of events. Ultimately he is a victim of events. The 31st Oct, no extension mantra was not forced on Johnson it was a pledge he tied himself too. Such was his desperation to meet his own self imposed deadline he sold out the Govts confidence and supply partners and ratted on his promise not to split our Union.

Hostage to fortune and all that.
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Broadly true I guess.
 
blueinsa said:
For now yes but this parliament wont be here for much longer.

GE changes it and brexit isn't going away, ever until its done.
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I don't think we should revoke and I don't see that happening either. But I agree this isn't going away until it's done.

From my perspective, I am wondering whether it's best to try to limp over the line with a slim majority over the next couple of weeks or so, or recognise that very possibly will fail and that therefore a GE is necessary anyway, so may as well call it now.

That the Remain side is backed by arguably the most unpopular opposition leader since records began, is more than fortunate from the Leave camp.
 
blueinsa said:
Agree.

Do you blame our politicians for that or us leave voters for not letting it go and expecting our votes to count?
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I’d say a combination of everything.

Politics will be absolute poison in our main parties and the general public if we don’t leave with this deal.

That’s not the fault of leave voters, I’m more inclined to blame the politicians now, past and present.

If I’d voted for something that hadn’t been implemented, I’d be absolutely seething.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, you're just wrong on this one.

As a statement of fact, a lie is something that you say, KNOWING it to be untrue. You have zero evidence that he KNEW we would not be leaving on October 31st (for example, one of your quotes) and therefore you are WRONG to say he lied about it.

That's all there is to it. On this subject specifically, you are WRONG. No ifs, buts, maybes, misinterpretations, misunderstandings. Just WRONG.
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I don't think so mate. Him and his creepy mate are just serial liars that will tell the good people of the UK anything to try and further their own agenda. That they are fully supported in their lies by the UK media goes some way to explaining why so many people still lap it up. The chances of us leaving on 31st October were extremely slim from the start unless you believe a no deal Brexit was a realistic outcome (remember the numbers in the HoC before you deny that) and yet he stated he would die in a ditch if it didn't happen. He knew one outcome was unlikely and the other outcome he never intended and yet he still promised it to the UK public. He continues to promise things he doesn't have the capability or power to deliver. He lied and he will continue to lie his way through this, just as his past career and personal life are polluted with lies.

"if lies were flies, you wouldn't hear a word he said because of the persistent buzzing'.
 
hammocity said:
Who knows? Just need to move on and put this shit behind us.
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Lots of people know. If we enter the Withdrawl Agreement we enter a negotiation around a FTA that typically takes 4 years + and that is assuming it ever gets done. No deal will be the legal default so we will face the prospect of no deal on an annual basis for the foreseeable future. Brexit is shit - we are not putting this shit behind us, we are just getting started.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Not Nigel fucking Farage, that's for sure. I'd have that twat tried for treason and hung drawn and quartered.
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what? the most recognisable, most well liked yet least successful politician? Surely not.

I'd revoke A50 and have him sign the documentation facilitating on live TV - all channels - to a back drop of the BP logo ablaze....... Banks would be the one to go to trial and get the treatment for me......if found guilty of course lol
 
Vic said:
There are very few constituencies where Labour voters who voted Leave would be a majority of (regular) Labour voters and everywhere else their Remain voters might punish them for the vacillation.
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According to detailed polls Its 30-45% of previously Labour voters in the North/Midlands/South Wales depending on where you are in the country. Also, most of them wouldn't vote Tory but would vote TBP.
 
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