Another new Brexit thread

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hgblue said:
They want to stop us leaving with a deal, because if we leave they are screwed. I have a feeling Labour are now going to vote for an election because their pre-condition of no deal off the table has been met, and they run the risk of the Tories backing the SNP and Lib Dem motion and being forced to have one anyway. Not a good look for a party going into an election.
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They cannot 'be forced' to have a GE and, if they keep voting against one, there will not be one.
 
Gaudion M said:
I must admit - I don't get it either. I can see why Tories and Lib Dems want a GE over Labour - polling tells you why. But the issue for Labour is what else are they going to do? If we don't have a 2nd Ref and we don't have a GE what is going to change by the end of January? There is the argument that the longer BoJo goes on not delivering brexit the worse it looks for him - I agree with that assessment and that works for Labour. But you can only go so long doing nothing but still objecting to a GE. That is the calculation they are making and I just assume that Labour see it the other way to Lib Dem and want more delay to weaken BoJo further. Either way I get the vibe that something will give pretty soon. A 2nd Ref might come back into it if a GE wont get through. I cant see us going through to January without something happening! Maybe Corbyn will get the boot (more hope than speculation!).
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I’d guess that Labour’s stance will be we’ve got 3 months, let’s get Brexit resolved, then we can have a GE. Which seems a reasonable enough approach to me. Given that the longer it goes on the worse it looks fir Boris. And don’t forget a bad winter for the NHS makes a post Xmas election much more appetizing to Labour
 
joe123 said:
I’d guess that Labour’s stance will be we’ve got 3 months, let’s get Brexit resolved, then we can have a GE. Which seems a reasonable enough approach to me. Given that the longer it goes on the worse it looks fir Boris. And don’t forget a bad winter for the NHS makes a post Xmas election much more appetizing to Labour
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If they've got any sense they'll back the FTPA vote tonight and get Brexit done, lose Corbyn & the Marxists and fight the GE on a traditional Labour manifesto.
 
Vic said:
I'm not watching it, but he will be bang on the button. (Just a pity about the Iraq War.)
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I watched most of it, but it got rather repetitive after 20 mins so stopped at that point.

He makes some good points and was and remains a class act IMO. But I do think he is wrong about one specific thing: He sees there being a hard choice between a hard, no-deal Brexit and Remain. I think that is completely untrue, and there exists for sure a third option which is a string-attached, middle-ground Brexit.

Of course this latter option will never satisfy the likes of Farage, but that is no reason to discount it. Remain will never satisfy the desires of the 17.4m who voted leave, or at least a large number of them. Hard Brexit will never satisfy the desires of the 16.1m Remainers. There is no option which satisfies everyone, so Blair is wrong to rule out one of the options.

My strong suspicion is that his own personal Remain objective is driving his narrative. He knows a referendum of No Deal vs Remain has the best chance of delivering a Remain outcome. It does not suit his purposes to be suggesting we work with the EU to find the basis for a free trade agreement which protects the economic interests of the UK, even if that ties us to EU regulations more than Farage would like. That is the option we should be - and are - pursuing.
 
hgblue said:
Not true. Tory, SNP and Lib Dem votes are enough to pass a law for a GE.
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To get a 2/3 majority you would need 434 votes. There are 650 MPs in the HOC of which 245 are Labour MPs and 7 are Sinn Fein (who never attend and therefore never vote).
650-245-7 = 398.

Admittedly they could pass a bill with the date of the next GE but that would then risk be amended (extend the vote to 16 and 17 year olds, for example), which BoJo might not wish to risk).
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
To get a 2/3 majority you would need 434 votes. There are 650 MPs in the HOC of which 245 are Labour MPs and 7 are Sinn Fein (who never attend and therefore never vote).
650-245-7 = 398.

Admittedly they could pass a bill with the date of the next GE but that would then risk be amended (extend the vote to 16 and 17 year olds, for example), which BoJo might not wish to risk).
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Not enough time to include votes for 16 year olds.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Of course you may ...... My wife was given a terminal prognosis .... issued with a DS1500 notice which is suppose to speed up things like blue badge issue , PIP etc



what did we get .........


an invitation to a Work Capability Assessment



I fucking hate the Conservatives



And this isn't the worse thing that they did
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I am so sorry to hear this as you know there are many on here with comparable tales including myself, so imagine how many there are across the land. I truly cannot fathom how anybody can bring themselves to vote for the Tories, I can only assume that those who do either have nobody close who has suffered ill health, or simply think the likes of you and I are just making up stories in order to paint the Tories in a bad light.
 
purplenose said:
I am so sorry to hear this as you know there are many on here with comparable tales including myself, so imagine how many there are across the land. I truly cannot fathom how anybody can bring themselves to vote for the Tories, I can only assume that those who do either have nobody close who has suffered ill health, or simply think the likes of you and I are just making up stories in order to paint the Tories in a bad light.
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A terrible example of the system treating us as numbers and I feel for anybody in that situation

I was treated as an emergency case in Chester after a dickhead driver wiped me out on my pushbike and the service I got and the treatment were superb

SWMBO has been under the care of three different hospitals for her Lymphoma (partly because we moved back to the NW some years ago) and the service and treatment to date has been exceptional.. She is currently under the Christie

I'm sure I'd feel the same way IF we'd had this kind of treatment and please don't misunderstand me, it's wrong so I fully understand the vitriol as this isn't acceptable BUT we are becoming numbers in the system and nothing more
 
purplenose said:
I am so sorry to hear this as you know there are many on here with comparable tales including myself, so imagine how many there are across the land. I truly cannot fathom how anybody can bring themselves to vote for the Tories, I can only assume that those who do either have nobody close who has suffered ill health, or simply think the likes of you and I are just making up stories in order to paint the Tories in a bad light.
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Thanks ..... when we could no longer get into the car ... because she was so ill ...we had to use taxis to get to and from the hospital for treatment ... taxis that would take a wheelchair ... £20+ each way


They wouldn't give us mobility / travel vouchers .........


Because we had a car


It came out of my (somewhat generous they said ) £63.50 a week carers allowance
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Thanks ..... when we could no longer get into the car ... because she was so ill ...we had to use taxis to get to and from the hospital for treatment ... taxis that would take a wheelchair ... £20+ each way


They wouldn't give us mobility / travel vouchers .........


Because we had a car


It came out of my (somewhat generous they said ) £63.50 a week carers allowance
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Shocking! I assume you had the chance to speak to a real person about this and not just via an online portal?
 
Chippy_boy said:
I watched most of it, but it got rather repetitive after 20 mins so stopped at that point.

He makes some good points and was and remains a class act IMO. But I do think he is wrong about one specific thing: He sees there being a hard choice between a hard, no-deal Brexit and Remain. I think that is completely untrue, and there exists for sure a third option which is a string-attached, middle-ground Brexit.

Of course this latter option will never satisfy the likes of Farage, but that is no reason to discount it. Remain will never satisfy the desires of the 17.4m who voted leave, or at least a large number of them. Hard Brexit will never satisfy the desires of the 16.1m Remainers. There is no option which satisfies everyone, so Blair is wrong to rule out one of the options.

My strong suspicion is that his own personal Remain objective is driving his narrative. He knows a referendum of No Deal vs Remain has the best chance of delivering a Remain outcome. It does not suit his purposes to be suggesting we work with the EU to find the basis for a free trade agreement which protects the economic interests of the UK, even if that ties us to EU regulations more than Farage would like. That is the option we should be - and are - pursuing.
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I can see his point regarding choosing between a hard Brexit and remain. I am far from convinced that half measures or even compromise is always a good path and this is one of them. I am a borderline leaver but also think we should either leave 100% or remain 100%. I am just not convinced by complicated half measures in truth are neither truly what either side of the argument voted for or wanted.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Thanks ..... when we could no longer get into the car ... because she was so ill ...we had to use taxis to get to and from the hospital for treatment ... taxis that would take a wheelchair ... £20+ each way


They wouldn't give us mobility / travel vouchers .........


Because we had a car


It came out of my (somewhat generous they said ) £63.50 a week carers allowance
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Shameful and given there seemingly will be an election soon I hope anyone reading this thread will think very carefully before voting for the cunts....but who the hell is an alternative does leave me at a loss. Certainly never those Tory twats.
 
purplenose said:
Shameful and given there seemingly will be an election soon I hope anyone reading this thread will think very carefully before voting for the cunts....but who the hell is an alternative does leave me at a loss. Certainly never those Tory twats.
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That's the issue... this story is shocking but who (be honest) will do any better?
 
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