General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
hilts said:
Eh? Real term takes into account inflation it's a better way of stating if you have increased spending. I think some are wriggling out of the previous point they have cut funding.

If you want to say they should be spending x% above inflation then fair enough.

If the govt said we are putting 5% extra into the nhs you would be one of the first to say but with inflation in real terms they are not.

A bit more honesty from both sides and less of the pedantry would be nice
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If you aren't putting in at or above inflation each year then you are cutting its as simple has that.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Inflation: no the graph is adjusted for inflation.

NHS spending has doubled in real terms (and much more than that in pound note terms) in the last 10 years. 10 years of austerity and we have still doubled NHS spending.

US costs: We're never implementing anything like that, full stop.
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Those fcuking statistics hey mate.
You can make them say what you want.
As a % of GDP nhs spending reached a record high under Labour in 2009 of 7.6%, it is now 7.1%.
Under Labour 1997 to 2010 nhs spending increased by 5.6% pa, under the Tories 2010 to 2016,1.6% pa.
Now if we look at education Tories are currently spending a record amount but if you look at spend per pupil. Google it.
 
BobKowalski said:
It has? Are you saying we have doubled the amount spent on the NHS since 2010?
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My apologies no. I am on my mobile and have my figures wrong. I retract the "doubled" claim but they have risen in real terms nevertheless. Sorry for my mistake
 
BobKowalski said:
And none of this has to do with Brexit. How we organise ourselves politically is a purely domestic matter. Have we got to the point where we simply now invent things and claim it’s a benefit of Brexit? Great news lads. I now feed my cat premium cat food. Thank god Brexit gave me this opportunity.
I know we’re desperate but Christ let's not start mainlining this horseshit just yet.
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I know, I know ... but even now Halligan is still trying. What he's promoting as a benefit of Brexit is in fairness what the now abolished regional development agencies were created for and which EU trading constraints effectively prevent. To equalise economic investment across the country and in particular to channel it from the South East to less prosperous areas.
 
Fame Monster said:
Real terms increases take account of inflation. The percentage increase that I think you're talking about also takes into account inflation but it mainly refers to the extent to which the NHS budget has increased from government to government. They've spent about 1% more (don't know if that's annual or not) which might not be enough but it's still an increase. My point wasn't to say, 'don't put more money into the NHS', my point was to say:

A. The NHS budget hasn't been cut (by most metrics)
B. We should simultaneously address where money is being wasted alongside potential budget increases

The health tourism link doesn't say anything about the costs of reclaiming money from foreign nationals costing more than it would save by the way. It actually concludes by saying the NHS, via the Department of Health, is inefficient at reclaiming costs back from foreign nationals using the service which, again, is something I think we should improve.
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A But if its at its lowest level of 70 years of its existance
B Apart from the PFI payment very little is wasted

Health is tourism is a small beer and unless you are going to stand at the hospital reception with a card machine what else can you do? How can you check this when someone has been brought in from an RTA?
 
Len Rum said:
Those fcuking statistics hey mate.
You can make them say what you want.
As a % of GDP nhs spending reached a record high under Labour in 2009 of 7.6%, it is now 7.1%.
Under Labour 1997 to 2010 nhs spending increased by 5.6% pa, under the Tories 2010 to 2016,1.6% pa.
Now if we look at education Tories are currently spending a record amount but if you look at spend per pupil. Google it.
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Yes spending increased faster under Labour, because that was following a period of spending restraint.

This is not rocket science. Labour come in, spend like mad, everyone thinks it's great, but they run out of money having exhausted every tax loophole and borrowing pot, and they get kicked out. The Tories get back in, have to make cuts, the Labour luvvies say "oh it was so much better under Labour" and just when the Tories have got our country back on a stable footing, they get kicked out. Then Labour go on a splurge again. Rinse and repeat

But it incorrect to say NHS spending has decreased under the Tories since 2010. It hasn't, contrary to many Labour claims.
 
Meanwhile in other election news BoJo has shelved his promises to cut corporation tax and reduce personal taxation by lifting the 40% threshold from 50k to 80k.
Now there's a surprise.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Yes spending increased faster under Labour, because that was following a period of spending restraint.

This is not rocket science. Labour come in, spend like mad, everyone thinks it's great, but they run out of money having exhausted every tax loophole and borrowing pot, and they get kicked out. The Tories get back in, have to make cuts, the Labour luvvies say "oh it was so much better under Labour" and just when the Tories have got our country back on a stable footing, they get kicked out. Then Labour go on a splurge again. Rinse and repeat

But it incorrect to say NHS spending has decreased under the Tories since 2010. It hasn't, contrary to many Labour claims.
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Yeah.
Right.
Not.
 
mcfc1632 said:
They seem to be some state of 'collective denial'

It's as if they were to ever - just once - admit that they were plainly wrong (in this case that the EU would not renegotiate the EU and that Johnson's stance with even the risk of a No-Deal outcome resulted in them in fact doing so) - then their bubble would be burst and all would be lost.

There is no debating with them/explaining to them - it is a state of the utterly desperate denial of simple facts.

One last try:

1. Yes we all know that the Irish sea option was a previously offered stance - why the fuck do you keep repeating this?

2. Yes we all know that the 'whole UK' option was a May/Robbins solution - why the fuck do you keep repeating this?

There must have been much champagne drunk in Brussels that night when they were handed something - the unfettered backstop - that was much more valuable than what they had been seeking.

3. So the May deal became the EU's treasured outcome - at a stroke it would allow them unilateral control over the UK's key policies for many years to come. Of course that became much more valuable and desirable to the EU than the Irish sea option and that is why they said that they would not reopen the WA - it provided a total remedy to any/all the main risks that they see from a UK Brexit.

4. Against all the odds due to the machinations of the Westminster acolytes and the views of the key Remainers on here, Johnson's stance with even the risk of a No-Deal outcome resulted in them in fact doing a renegotiation and giving up something that they had secured and moving back to a lesser outcome.

It matters not a single fuck if this 'new/old' position is something that had been considered before - the simple fact is that EU moved their position from the May deal which was far better for them and removed the poisonous unfettered backstop - and this was a major climbdown by the EU/achievement for the UK.

Can people not just be pleased at a good outcome for the UK? It does not matter is you support Remain or Leave - the unfettered backstop would have been ruinous for the UK
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Why do you keep repeating everything?
 
BobKowalski said:
Andrew Neil with the burn...

‘Boris Johnson tells CBI he’s “postponing” further cuts in corporation tax (from 19% to 17%) because this will save £6bn to spend on public services. Yet only this morning his Business Secretary was telling the BBC that previous cuts in CT had generated MORE revenues’
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All about finding the sweet spot which is harder than finding the.......

Too crude
 
Fred_Quimby said:
Yes it is very true that spending has gone up but and this is a big BUT it is being spent outside of the NHS. There is a severe shortage of doctors and nurses(fact) so they cannot cope with the day to day running of the service consequently some are farmed out to private companies and hospitals who make a profit from the tax payer. Virgin Care is a prime example of this although not the only one. The Tories ‘promise’ to build many, many hospitals but how many of them will be run like the Virgin ones with private companies making fat profits out of the NHS? It’s no wonder Mr Fart is anxious to get Boris in power and have a slice of the action for American health providers. You not think this will not happen? it already is.

Our local hospital has to send children 35 miles to Lincoln because there is a shortage of staff. The Tories promised to build a larger A & E but the head of A & E said ‘thank you very much but we don’t have the staff to run it as it is let alone if we increase its size’. It’s not necessarily the amount of money it is the fact that the Tories have run down the service so that the NHS has had to go outside to private firms to be able to function and that is where the money is being spent.
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Your frustrations are understandable mate because the demands in the NHS have gone up exponentially. But your comments about privatisation are wide of the mark in that something like 7% only of all NHS spending goes to private sector providers. 93% does not.

So the answer to your question "how many of them will be run like the Virgin ones with private companies making fat profits out of the NHS? " is

Hardly any.
 
George Hannah said:
The NHS is used a political football - they must think the public is thick not to see through their propaganda.
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NHS staff are nearly all voting Labour whatever they think of Corbyn. They're not looking at propaganda. They're looking at reality.

Are you really saying that having the longest waiting lists ever is the Tories' idea of how to play NHS football?
 
Vic said:
NHS staff are nearly all voting Labour whatever they think of Corbyn. They're not looking at propaganda. They're looking at reality.
Are you really saying that having the longest waiting lists ever is the Tories' idea of how to play NHS football?
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In common with all the public sector, NHS employees have historically regarded the Labour Party as more likely to act in their interest if it is in government. They are probably going to have to wait at least another decade to find out with Corbyn and his crew now at the helm.
 
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