Another new Brexit thread

[Chippy_boy]

I've just woken up and it must still be early 2016???

 

[Saddleworth2]

I just don't get why people want to leave, if its immigration it will continue to grow to keep wages low, that's the tory way. If its law making, our parliamentarians are utter Sh**t at it. Better left to those who are sensible and know what they are doing. If it trade deals, we don't make anything, and our food production is very expensive and wont be able to cope with international competition. We will also be loosing all the free trade deals that the EU have negotiated, it will take us tens of years to get anyway near. If its the money we pay in, we will end up paying more to prop up our economy. We will still pay the farmers and land owners after we leave, just with our cash rather than the EU subsidy. Now when I retire I don't want to live in the UK in winter. Spain was always a good cheep option, that will be messed up for us. If its a free trade deal with the US, they will take us to the cleaners. We will be eating genetically modified food faster that you can say chlorine washed chicken. If its to reduce the rights of workers, it may happen but I am against it. just don't see the great benefits.

The EU was nasty to Greece. They also want an army. As a result we have a clear mandate and rationale to leave.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I've just woken up and it must still be early 2016???

Sadly not.if it was 2016 a reasoned argument like that wouldn't be heard above the cacophony of bollocks. It's a great tragedy that the remain argument at that time seemed to center upon what a racist loon Farage was and by inference so we're those that agreed with him. If the actual case for remain had been properly stated and the many benefits of EU membership also, then I honestly think there would have been a clear majority for remain.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Got to feel sorry for Remainers.
To Remain they have to hope Magic Grampa will back a 2nd referendum (big if) and he only gets a minority government supported by the SNP and Lib Dems. Worst of all they'll have to except a fairly socialist agenda.

Every thing you and yours benefits from is as a result of a 'Socialist Agenda' tho ...... give me a Tory policy (that they have actually enacted) that benefits you ?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Sadly not.if it was 2016 a reasoned argument like that wouldn't be heard above the cacophony of bollocks. It's a great tragedy that the remain argument at that time seemed to center upon what a racist loon Farage was and by inference so we're those that agreed with him. If the actual case for remain had been properly stated and the many benefits of EU membership also, then I honestly think there would have been a clear majority for remain.

Yes and of course my bollock-endowed aunt would indeed be my uncle.

The Remain campaign was of course dire, completely failing to sell the benefits of EU membership, merely concentrating on the downsides of leaving, which Leave managed successfully to convince enough people, was just scaremongering. But that was then and this is now...

So I prefer to concentrate on the positives. Leaving the EU will be nothing like as catastrophic as people like to suggest. We'll probably leave with an FTA IMO, even if it takes a couple of years and another delay or two. And even if not, WTO terms are in some cases better than EU terms! It's not all terrible. And we'd end up negotiating an FTA soon after we'd left without one anyway. More positively the EU is a rag-bag collection of mis-aligned states, hampered by a one-size-fits-all set of rules aimed at full federal and fiscal alignment. The upshot of which is that the EU underperforms as a bloc and has done for years. Potentially we can grow much more quickly once out from its control.

I'm very resigned to the fact we're leaving and in my honest opinion, it would be better all around if other (former) Remainers did the same. Leaving is the only thing that brings this sorry episode to a conclusion. All other roads lead to years and years and years of more of this paralysis. We need to move on from 2016.

 

[Coatigan]

Sadly not.if it was 2016 a reasoned argument like that wouldn't be heard above the cacophony of bollocks. It's a great tragedy that the remain argument at that time seemed to center upon what a racist loon Farage was and by inference so we're those that agreed with him. If the actual case for remain had been properly stated and the many benefits of EU membership also, then I honestly think there would have been a clear majority for remain.

I disagree. People were so blinded by their hatred, fear (which farage and banks focused so specifically to each voter based on what made them tick), and anger at beleiving they were misunderstood or 'left behind' somehow, that no positive arguement however real or well put would have worked or been even acknowledged. Plus all the promises of the ease of it all, the fake amounts of money and benefits with no sacrifice, and it swung the moderate marginals. Those campaigning for remain didnt help themselves having over the last decade used the EU as a scapegoat for their own failings.

 

[Ban-jani]

Got to feel sorry for Remainers.
To Remain they have to hope Magic Grampa will back a 2nd referendum (big if) and he only gets a minority government supported by the SNP and Lib Dems. Worst of all they'll have to except a fairly socialist agenda.

Do you actually think if we leave then everyone who voted leave somehow wins and gets a nice new job or car? And those that voted remain lose, become jobless and things get worse for them?

We could leave and as a result you could lose your job and I may not. Who’s feeling sorry for who then?

Obviously I hope no one does but the state of the country at the end of all this won’t discriminate between leave and remainers... and it’ll probably be the same for most people.

And that ‘big if’ you are saying will be carried out by Corbyn, it’s going in the manifesto.

Not that I support Corbyn.

 

[Len Rum]

Yes and of course my bollock-endowed aunt would indeed be my uncle.

The Remain campaign was of course dire, completely failing to sell the benefits of EU membership, merely concentrating on the downsides of leaving, which Leave managed successfully to convince enough people, was just scaremongering. But that was then and this is now...

So I prefer to concentrate on the positives. Leaving the EU will be nothing like as catastrophic as people like to suggest. We'll probably leave with an FTA IMO, even if it takes a couple of years and another delay or two. And even if not, WTO terms are in some cases better than EU terms! It's not all terrible. And we'd end up negotiating an FTA soon after we'd left without one anyway. More positively the EU is a rag-bag collection of mis-aligned states, hampered by a one-size-fits-all set of rules aimed at full federal and fiscal alignment. The upshot of which is that the EU underperforms as a bloc and has done for years. Potentially we can grow much more quickly once out from its control.

I'm very resigned to the fact we're leaving and in my honest opinion, it would be better all around if other (former) Remainers did the same. Leaving is the only thing that brings this sorry episode to a conclusion. All other roads lead to years and years and years of more of this paralysis. We need to move on from 2016.

Hardly a ringing endorsement " Leaving the EU will be nothing like as catastrophic as people suggest".
Whatever you think about the EU being a "rag-bag"....etc etc they are still our closest and biggest trading partner so loosening the ties will hurt ( 6 to 7% lower GDP according to the Government's own estimates).
Your response " POTENTIALLY"... ( another carefully chosen word)....we can grow much more more quickly once out from it's control".
So he will we "potentially" do that:
-trade deals with far away countries -nah
-becoming more inventive and hard working and productive- maybe but that's just an aspiration you might as well just speculate on less of all this.
-doing a Singapore - your "dynamic economy". This is almost certainly the outcome because deregulation can be done quickly and it is a short term solution and politics is all about short term. So we will end up with a prosperous South East with financial services, high tech jobs etc and a low skill,low cost,low benefits,low productivity economy in the North and Midlands in order to attract the investment necessary to offset the lost GDP.
Chippy's Britain
Tory Britain.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I disagree. People were so blinded by their hatred, fear (which farage and banks focused so specifically to each voter based on what made them tick), and anger at beleiving they were misunderstood or 'left behind' somehow, that no positive arguement however real or well put would have worked or been even acknowledged. Plus all the promises of the ease of it all, the fake amounts of money and benefits with no sacrifice, and it swung the moderate marginals. Those campaigning for remain didnt help themselves having over the last decade used the EU as a scapegoat for their own failings.

Lol. Keep telling yourself people were blinded by hate and fear if it helps you feel nice. It's that sort of conceit and condescention that lost the referendum. Farage was a fringe comedy eccentric who was accidentally played a winning hand by an intellectually lazy remain campaign. It wasn't 'brexit lies' or bollocks on the side of a bus that won. Remain gambled on their own lies in the form of a smear campaign winning and it backfired.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Hardly a ringing endorsement " Leaving the EU will be nothing like as catastrophic as people suggest".
Whatever you think about the EU being a "rag-bag"....etc etc they are still our closest and biggest trading partner so loosening the ties will hurt ( 6 to 7% lower GDP according to the Government's own estimates).
Your response " POTENTIALLY"... ( another carefully chosen word)....we can grow much more more quickly once out from it's control".
So he will we "potentially" do that:
-trade deals with far away countries -nah
-becoming more inventive and hard working and productive- maybe but that's just an aspiration you might as well just speculate on less of all this.
-doing a Singapore - your "dynamic economy". This is almost certainly the outcome because deregulation can be done quickly and it is a short term solution and politics is all about short term. So we will end up with a prosperous South East with financial services, high tech jobs etc and a low skill,low cost,low benefits,low productivity economy in the North and Midlands in order to attract the investment necessary to offset the lost GDP.
Chippy's Britain
Tory Britain.

Sounds lovely, thanks Len

 

[Coatigan]

Lol. Keep telling yourself people were blinded by hate and fear if it helps you feel nice. It's that sort of conceit and condescention that lost the referendum. Farage was a fringe comedy eccentric who was accidentally played a winning hand by an intellectually lazy remain campaign. It wasn't 'brexit lies' or bollocks on the side of a bus that won. Remain gambled on their own lies in the form of a smear campaign winning and it backfired.

I will, thanks. All the polls conducted since, on why people voted for brexit, the comments and behaviour of many if not most leave voters, will continue to say it too. And the right wing media glorify it.

It doesnt make me feel better btw, i find it depreasing. Even those that don't endorse those views, celebrate them if it leads to the numbers for their 'victory', which in my book is unfortunate.

But, we are where we are. Thats the society the UK has evolved into.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Farage getting pelters on Leaders QT.......it seems they are now a "tech startup" not a political party................why the fuck is this wanker given airtime???

 

[bluethrunthru]

Farage has gone far right mental ...............he's out of control !

 

[SebastianBlue]

Sadly not.if it was 2016 a reasoned argument like that wouldn't be heard above the cacophony of bollocks. It's a great tragedy that the remain argument at that time seemed to center upon what a racist loon Farage was and by inference so we're those that agreed with him. If the actual case for remain had been properly stated and the many benefits of EU membership also, then I honestly think there would have been a clear majority for remain.

I am sorry, mate, but that is a very simplistic (some might say naive) stance.

I agree that the Remain campaign was inept in many ways, unfortunately for us, but it is very unlikely that a more measured, reasonable, logical approach would have made much difference. If anything, it may have lead to more “we’ve had enough with the experts” types voting. The referendum was very, very loosely based on reason and very, very much based on inherent feelings (many of which were legitimate, although the individuals targeted for blame and beliefs generated from them were very much not).

An Aristotelian confluence of events lead to Farage and co having a royal flush which was very unlikely to be beat by anyone else at the table, much to our harm.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Late night chat with my Dad an ardent Leaver - realises tonight that he cannot vote for Corbyn but thinks Johnson is a liar ( I welcomed him to the party - late but welcomed ) he then watched Farage and cannot believe the man was such a charlatan - I told him I told him that and suggested he doesn't vote then if he feels so let down by Leave.

 

[Banned Tosspot]

Late night chat with my Dad an ardent Leaver - realises tonight that he cannot vote for Corbyn but thinks Johnson is a liar ( I welcomed him to the party - late but welcomed ) he then watched Farage and cannot believe the man was such a charlatan - I told him I told him that and suggested he doesn't vote then if he feels so let down by Leave.

You should go door to door with those tactics.

 

[Coatigan]

Farage has gone far right mental ...............he's out of control !

Yep, and that'll probably be even more supportes flocking over to his 'breath of fresh air - say it like it is' cause.

For me that is the saddest legacy of brexit, bringin out that side of society en-masse.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Remain gambled on their own lies in the form of a smear campaign winning and it backfired.

A similar campaign has taken over from the same source that misread the British public on 23/6/2016.
The tactic is exactly the same, Liar repeated incessantly, filthy rotten scoundrel with no morals, entitled
rich boy, Eton scum, and on and on, parroting the same rhetoric that failed last time. Repeating these pejoratives may
engender inner satisfaction for those doing it, but it didn't work last time, and combined with leave voters being
branded as thick racists, I doubt it will now.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

You should go door to door with those tactics.

Lol.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

A similar campaign has taken over from the same source that misread the British public on 23/6/2016.
The tactic is exactly the same, Liar repeated incessantly, filthy rotten scoundrel with no morals, entitled
rich boy, Eton scum, and on and on, parroting the same rhetoric that failed last time. Repeating these pejoratives may
engender inner satisfaction for those doing it, but it didn't work last time, and combined with leave voters being
branded as thick racists, I doubt it will now.

it doesn’t matter they still think it will work . Don’t forget “evil” .