General Election - December 12th, 2019

[blueinsa]

We all know that wouldn't happen under Jezza, this country is the source of all the world's ills.

Jews would get all the blame then.

he could stop pretending and so to could his backers.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

No here's how it works mate.
USA/UK trade deal.
USA negotiating from position of strength.
UK desperate.
USA only interested in agriculture and pharmaceutical into UK and so this trade deal only goes one way, their way.
Of course these documents don't say UK have agreed but given the actualité of the situation there's only one outcome.
PS This leaked document doesn't just cover pharmaceutical, it's agricultural as well.

The leaked document covers more than than len it’s a uk/ us trade discussion document it even covers legal services. You know trade deals we have to do when we leave. Normal stuff.

it’s all out there unredacted on the internet len. Oh by the way you may notice most of the documents date from when Theresa May was in charge....

 

[mcfc1632]

Every recent general election people start wanking themselves into a frenzy about the opinion polls and every time the opinion polls are conspicuously wrong.

Why will this election be any different?

I fear not - and as I mentioned I think that the assessment was a bit fanciful

The reason I posted that assessment was it was an attempt to apply some 'analysis' to what I see as the 'special circumstances' that prevail this time - such as tactical voting and the vulnerability of Labour marginals - that latter point makes you think that Farage is doing his Brexit cause no good.

Still - it could all be going tits for the Brexit cause so I need to take whatever comfort there is available

This consolidated view also provides some comfort:

https://electionsetc.com/2019/11/27/fourth-combined-forecast-for-the-2019-general-election/

 

[Len Rum]

Hastily used this morning in a desperate attempt to move the debate away from the Antisemitism row and you could tell as Corbyn was appalling in trying to deliver the so called expose and the use of props in full scrubs was a joke.

Journalists didn't fall for it, neither will the electorate in my opinion.

No.
As more of the detail emerges it looks even worse for the Government.
Tell you what mate instead of bullshiting, why not give us your views on how any future UK/USA trade deal will deal with US pharmaceutical and agricultural products into the UK.

 

[blueinsa]

No.
As more of the detail emerges it looks even worse for the Government.
Tell you what mate instead of bullshiting, why not give us your views on how any future UK/USA trade deal will deal with US pharmaceutical and agricultural products into the UK.

Yes Len, yes.

Chlorine washed political bullshit and you have tucked in and gorged yourself.

 

[Metal Biker]

Only had SNP and LD so far but the exact same here.

Any others landing will suffer the same fate.

Not had any. I suppose that's down to me being in one of the safest Labour seats in the country that the others don't bother.

 

[Metal Biker]

No.
As more of the detail emerges it looks even worse for the Government.
Tell you what mate instead of bullshiting, why not give us your views on how any future UK/USA trade deal will deal with US pharmaceutical and agricultural products into the UK.

How about a US/EU deal which would include the same.

 

[Blue Hefner]

As long as that's tempered with what good the empire brought then I am all for it.

Which I am pretty sure it would do.

Either way 1) the idea Corbyn will be leader of the Labour Party never mid leader of the country by Xmas is for the birds and 2) even if he does manage to the PM the idea that the first thing on the list is teach kids that the Empire isn't as great as some people (who weren't there) claim how great it was is equally unlikely

 

[mcfc1632]

I saw a (since deleted) awful tweet aimed at the Chief Rabbi yesterday from someone who called himself a Corbyn supporter and socialist and was proud to be blocked by Rachel Riley (Jewish):

"Just want us all to try remain quiet whilst you murder innocent Palestinians like the Nazi's did to Jews during the Second World War"

The chief Rabbi is South African and of British nationality and this guy has translated a British national Jew to be responsible for the supposed actions of Israel. This tweet in itself is therefore anti-semitic!!

He was however retweeted MANY times by people (Labour members etc) who agreed saying the actions of the Chief Rabbi were all just a smear. Some even said he was in league with his Israeli paymasters.

Yet you say there are no problems.... Lol ok then.

"...…….………...saying the actions of the Chief Rabbi were all just a smear."

There are people on here with such reactions

 

[Chippy_boy]

Because it allows companies to make more money. Pharma is a business. Big business. The point of business is to make money.

And why would we agree to do that ???

Suppose Vauxhall said, "Hey Bob, we'd like to charge you 10x more for your next service. It's a great idea because it will enable us to make more money".

What would be your response?

 

[blueparrot]

How about a US/EU deal which would include the same.

No it wouldn't, simply because the EU are far more powerful and in a stronger position than an indepenent UK.

 

[inbetween]

No.

As more of the detail emerges it looks even worse for the Government.

Tell you what mate instead of bullshiting, why not give us your views on how any future UK/USA trade deal will deal with US pharmaceutical and agricultural products into the UK.

The leaked document also appears to be protectively marked.

Nothing tests your suitability to become PM more than your will to release sensitive material....

 

[mcfc1632]

I genuinely think Labour are too far gone as right at it's core there is this evil element dictating it's direction, expectant of long term Labour voters to just continue to support them because they're "Labour". But they are "labour" in name only.

Ideally a party in which the moderates in Labour and the Conservatives joined together to form a true centrist party, taking ideal social and conservative elements, similar to what Blair and Cameron were trying to do, would need to emerge to have me consider voting in a Government.

Right now i'd take Boris's Government over a Corbyn one and that's not easy for me to say.

Correct - they are Labour in name only - which is why so many - quite a few on here - traditional Labour voters will desert them (I hope)

 

[blueinsa]

The leaked document also appears to be protectively marked.

Nothing tests your suitability to become PM more than your will to release sensitive material....

It doesnt affect Hamas so all good.........

 

[Chippy_boy]

The concern is an expanded private healthcare sector dominated by US interests, competing with the state sector and profiteering at its expense. Raw capitalism recognises no limits on what money can buy and medicine and medical services are top of their list of commodities to be sold. They regard our NHS as just another commercial rival and will seek to damage it as such.

What's new though George? If some US business wants to buy say Bupa, or Spire, then they can put a bid in this afternoon. If they want to bid for some outsource contract, they can do it tomorrow. And they supply us with drugs already (although only about 10%, since (a) most of the drugs companies are not American and (b) they are typically uncompetitively priced.

There is literally nothing to be concerned about here, other that if someone has concerns about the status quo and the fact that maybe 7% of the NHS' spend goes to third party providers. Which tbh no-one should give a toss about, so long as we get the best possible service at the best possible price.

But there is nothing new in allowing American firms to compete: they do already.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Warning. It’s a reasonably long read so you might not be up to it.
Good last question. The way to get rid of the NHS is to make it so shit, that people are desperate for something ‘better’. Your chaps are well on the way to making it shitter than it’s ever been. Cameron hacked away at it even though he’d used it a lot. Many of the current ruling class have never used it and will never use it. They aren’t part of 65000+ trolley waits, or would contemplate waiting 18 weeks for treatment, or 4 weeks for a GP appointment or be grateful for getting cancer treatment 2 months after being referred. Losing it will be no big deal to most of them.
As for lying. Where to start? We will do nursing first.

‘'The Bursary is back... we will recruit 50,000 more nurses.'

... ignoring the fact there is no time scale for more staff, neither claim can be true.

Factually, the bursary is not being reinstated. Students may receive a £5,000-£8,000 annual maintenance grant, every year, during their course, to help with their cost of living and they won’t have to pay it back. But, they will still leave uni with student debt.
Why should they be different to other students, you may ask?
Student nurses are different to other students, as their courses and placements run throughout the year, meaning student nurses have no opportunity to do the part-time jobs, other students can do, to defray their living costs, it is also not unusual for student nurse to drive, bus, or train 60 miles to a placement. The cost of which is borne by the student.
The one in 5 fall-out rate, in nurse training, is more to do with these type of living and travel problems, than it is not wanting the pressures of becoming a nurse.
Fifty thousand more nurses? NO
It turns out the figure is made up of; 14,000 trainees, 12,500 overseas recruits and 5,000 from the nursing apprenticeship scheme.

The balance would be made up by retaining 18,500 nurses, through flexible working offers, who otherwise would have left the NHS.

• 14,000 over five years, the life of the Parliament, is 2,800 'new' nurses a year, around a 10% uplift.
• 12,500 will come from overseas; as yet there is no clarity on immigration policy and immigrant health workers will have to pay around £600 for them and for eachof their family to use the NHS, they are working in. By September this year the international GP recruitment programme had brought in just 140 doctors.
• 5,000 apprentices... last year just 20 apprentices registered for the degree programme.
• 18,500 retained though better working conditions? How can anyone know what the figure for 'might-leave', is? How can keeping the staff you have become 'new staff'? Nursing is an ageing workforce, around half of leavers are retirees. Every week 233 nurses leave early, most citing 'work-life balance'.

Policy? Like much else with this PM, this is just yet more industrial scale lying.

We've had 10 years of running a dirty great big deficit and have had to make cuts. We are doing better now, but have not won a country-wide super lottery, so growth and expansion plans have to be founded on reasonable and sensible finances. WTF do you expect???

If the government's covert agenda was to get rid of the NHS, why did they protect NHS budgets more than any other government area of expenditure over the last 10 years? Did you see the police forces rolling in money, or the schools? We've had to make cuts and yet have actually favoured NHS spending, and yet you ask us to believe that's because the Tories want to get rid of it?

What you suggest is poppycock mate, it really is.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

A lot of this giving away the NHS narrative stems from Corbyn, and the far left's visceral hatred of America.
The problem they have is that most people don't feel the same way.
In fact, most people don't feel the same way as them about anything.

 

[blueinsa]

A lot of this giving away the NHS narrative stems from Corbyn, and the far left's visceral hatred of America.
The problem they have is that most people don't feel the same way.
In fact, most people don't feel the same way as them about anything.

The America that is largely pro Israel you mean?

 

[Metal Biker]

No it wouldn't, simply because the EU are far more powerful and in a stronger position than an indepenent UK.

Gotta love those influential powers of the Southern and Eastern European members, eh!

 

[Chippy_boy]

No here's how it works mate.
USA/UK trade deal.
USA negotiating from position of strength.
UK desperate.
USA only interested in agriculture and pharmaceutical into UK and so this trade deal only goes one way, their way.
Of course these documents don't say UK have agreed but given the actualité of the situation there's only one outcome.
PS This leaked document doesn't just cover pharmaceutical, it's agricultural as well.

So we'd do a deal in our own best interests then Len, that's what you are saying? Good luck with your job at Labour campaign HQ with that bombshell.