General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
Ban-jani said:
Oh Jesus wept.

What’s the old saying about it being harder to argue with an idiot?

You’ve got mixed up with who you’re speaking with, I never mentioned a “tricky question”.

Seriously it’s getting to the point that I’m beginning to worry for you.
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ugh-youre-boring.jpg
 


I will just leave this here. I ask to just think a little in between all the petty sneering and squabbling about politics and just for one second think about what matters most to you. I looked at this and it’s haunted me since I’ve seen it. I can’t simply just forget this is happening and it could just as easily happen to any of us.

If They wanna tax me and my family extra to pay for this I’m happy to let them. If our money is spent on the things that matter like poverty and healthcare then I will sleep better for it
 
George Hannah said:
If you read my posts you would see I have never supported the Tories and think remaining inside the EU is preferable to the current economically damaging Brexit deal together with its inevitable crash out FTA. The Labour Party indeed offers a transformative manifesto promising many social improvements and a fairer society few would object to. Sadly they are also trying to deceive the electorate into believing their programme can be carried out by only taxing the excessively rich and by sustainable borrowing. The reality is the exact reverse and given the chance they will use this country as yet another exercise in vivisection for the failed Marxist experiment.
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I never said you supported the Tories, if you read my own post.

All manifestos are based upon theories and rough costing (if they actually try). "Taxing the excessively rich" means [hidden] wealth, earnings, internet giants, banks and loopholes. It brings in more than you think. Sure it may mean the public pays slightly more, but most are willing if it means a better standard of living for all.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s almost as if the Tories stood on manifestos of austerity and tough measures and the public voted for it, imagine that.

I personally didn’t, I voted for Ed Miliband’s Labour in 2015 but the country voted for a period of austerity to get the deficit down.

It’s almost as if there was a referendum on EU membership and the public voted for that too.

One thing I’ve learned recently is to accept things that don’t go my way when we’re voting in a democracy, I suggest you do the same.
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Maybe I'm misreading you here but quite surprised at this mate. I'll fundamentally always be opposed to Brexit, and unless they have a drastic change of heart, the Tories too. Just because they win elections doesn't mean you should just accept it and abandon what you believe in. Don't want to misquote you but I would've thought you felt similar from the old brexit thread.
 
bobmcfc said:


I will just leave this here. I ask to just think a little in between all the petty sneering and squabbling about politics and just for one second think about what matters most to you. I looked at this and it’s haunted me since I’ve seen it. I can’t simply just forget this is happening and it could just as easily happen to any of us.

If They wanna tax me and my family extra to pay for this I’m happy to let them. If our money is spent on the things that matter like poverty and healthcare then I will sleep better for it
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One in three children is a shocking number going into poverty.
 
Bigga said:
I never said you supported the Tories, if you read my own post. All manifestos are based upon theories and rough costing (if they actually try). "Taxing the excessively rich" means [hidden] wealth, earnings, internet giants, banks and loopholes. It brings in more than you think. Sure it may mean the public pays slightly more, but most are willing if it means a better standard of living for all.
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It's simply not true that the level of public investment and state spending on benefits proposed by Labour is sustainable on the tax base they identify. The crucial point is that no other developed country has raised the required level of revenue by such punitive levels of tax on business and high earners. The real position is explained very clearly by Paul Johnson of the IFS in his contributions to this recent BBC Politics Live which I posted earlier in the thread.https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000bh8m/politics-live-21112019
 
George Hannah said:
It's simply not true that the level of public investment and state spending on benefits proposed by Labour is sustainable on the tax base they identify. The crucial point is that no other developed country has raised the required level of revenue by such punitive levels of tax on business and high earners. The real position is explained very clearly by Paul Johnson of the IFS in his contributions to this recent BBC Politics Live which I posted earlier in the thread.https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000bh8m/politics-live-21112019
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I will look at it later. I'm watching Dispatches 'Growing Up Poor' right now.

I suggest you do the same and realise we have to make a start somewhere to change things.
 
bobmcfc said:


I will just leave this here. I ask to just think a little in between all the petty sneering and squabbling about politics and just for one second think about what matters most to you. I looked at this and it’s haunted me since I’ve seen it. I can’t simply just forget this is happening and it could just as easily happen to any of us.

If They wanna tax me and my family extra to pay for this I’m happy to let them. If our money is spent on the things that matter like poverty and healthcare then I will sleep better for it
Click to expand...

The scary thing is that the level of poverty has been pretty static for nearly 20 years (possibly more) ...

SMC_rates.png


It seems, from that, that poverty improved a little during the austerity years, and I'm going to take a stab at Universal Credit being the cause of the more recent reversal around 2014/15.

However, the absolute and relative low income levels appear little changed since 2007 ...
HBAI_people.png


On the left, the relative calculation (blue) is static, but it is possibly misleading because it bases the low income level on average earnings, so when they rise (and generally low incomes don't) then gives a false figure because it pulls the low-income level too high making more people in poverty. The absolute level (pink) takes a fixed point and applies inflation to the low-income level. Again it's a little misleading because it ignores the salary gap, so the true point is probably somewhere between the two.

Of course any poverty is a bad thing but these charts suggest something bigger than just government policy to me. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a sudden rise in poverty following the rapid housing price rises of the nineties and early part of this century.
 
joe123 said:
Maybe I'm misreading you here but quite surprised at this mate. I'll fundamentally always be opposed to Brexit, and unless they have a drastic change of heart, the Tories too. Just because they win elections doesn't mean you should just accept it and abandon what you believe in. Don't want to misquote you but I would've thought you felt similar from the old brexit thread.
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I still think Brexit is a bad idea, there’s no change there and I disagree with some of the cuts made in austerity measures, specifically to disabled people and law and order.

The thing is, the public chose these things and so just constantly moaning about both isn’t exactly constructive.

The left and remain should be looking to get a consistent and reasonable argument in place and should make themselves electable. Remain should have sold the EU, not focused on negatives, as the one thing British people won’t take, is trying to be scared. Obama’s wading in proved that, the leave vote went up in the polls after he made his warning.

Obviously it’s too late for remain now but there will be further general elections.

I just think constantly moaning about austerity as some thing forced on the general population isn’t productive, as the public were told that’s what the Tories were going to do and voted them in twice. Now it’s treated like some great shock.
 
Corbyn: "When I came into the Labour Party, there were no systems in place to deal with antisemitism. Since I became leader, there have been"

Labour didn't need to have any systems in place before you became leader because the antisemitism was non-existance in Labour. He created his own problem and is now trying to claim credit for "dealing with it". It should never have arisen as a problem to be dealt with in the first place.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Corbyn: "When I came into the Labour Party, there were no systems in place to deal with antisemitism. Since I became leader, there have been"

Labour didn't need to have any systems in place before you became leader because the antisemitism was non-existance in Labour. He created his own problem and is now trying to claim credit for "dealing with it". It should never have arisen as a problem to be dealt with in the first place.
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That's like Hitler saying when he formed the Nazis, there was no war.
 
Fame Monster said:
Corbyn trying to give it the nice guy act on This Morning...reminded me of the Wolf pretending to be Red Riding Hood's Nan.
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He still showed moments of the "real" him.

"wait wait, listen to me!" *voice rises*
 
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