General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
BobKowalski said:
To have a ‘Venzuelan style socialist transformation’ don’t you have to be in Venezuela? Why can’t we have a ‘British style socialist transformation’? Also when did nationalising railways (or whatever) automatically lead to South American style revolution? Most other European countries have state owned railways without instantly having its civilians forming a back drop to ‘Evita’. Come to think of it we do have a state owned railway system. It’s just that they are owned by every other European state other than our own.
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Depends what you mean by style but as an ardent student of the left you, like the Shadow Chancellor, surely know socialism can't be confined in one country - "the victorious proletariat of that country will arise against the rest of the world". McDonnell certainly felt the eyes of the eternal Venezulan president on him when he praised Chavez’s socialist regime in Venezuela: “Here you had the contrast between capitalism in crisis and socialism in action.” Sound familiar at all? He may express reservations now about his successor Maduro, given how things have turned out, but he was fully embraced at the time of this election : “Victory for the Labour Movement in Venezuela: bus driver, trade unionist and socialist Nicolas Maduro elected as President of Venezuela.” In passing I'd just mention our railway network is actually still owned by us even in this Tory paradise.
Bigga said:
Does he not caveat his his point about Venezuela with the amounts of corruption within the government after Chavez's tenure? And during his tenure education standards went up as Chavez put more into the system as well as healthcare. He did that using the wealth of one of the most oil rich countries in the world. You're focusing on the corruption that happened afterwards.
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I'm not, see my reply above. The Bolivarian Revolution has been an inspiration and model for the post war UK hard left, which McDonnell embodies.

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Chippy_boy said:
The evil Tories, on the other hand... Antisemites the lot 'em. They'll have us like Nazi Germany in the blink of an eye. Bizarre the Jewish community haven't cotton on yet, but there you go.
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Methinks thou doth protest too much.
Remember Fascism comes to you first as your friend.
When things go to rat shit in the next few years the Tories will need someone to blame - EU, Labour, immigrants and minorities.
It doesn't take long for apparently stable democracies to collapse.
 
Len Rum said:
Methinks thou doth protest too much. Remember Fascism comes to you first as your friend. When things go to rat shit in the next few years the Tories will need someone to blame - EU, Labour, immigrants and minorities. It doesn't take long for apparently stable democracies to collapse.
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It is not possible to protest too much about Corbyn's Labour Party, they are offering this country a road only to economic and political disaster.
 
Postman Pep said:
No answer then?
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To what? It's patently obvious that the Labour party has had a deep-rooted problem with antisemitism which goes back years and still persists. It's also obvious that the Tory party has no such afflction. There may or may not have been isolated cases - I don't know every specific. But that's the long and the short of it. Only 1 party has the chief Rabbi condemning their leader. Only 1 party has the Jewish Chronicle urging Jews and none-Jews not to vote for them. That is THE LABOUR PARTY.

Now if you want to try to play silly games to try unsuccessfully to deflect from this, you can play them on your own.
 
Postman Pep said:
No answer then?
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If this was your question?
Postman Pep said:
By my basic maths that is 5 current Tory parliamentary candidates who have been labelled antisemitic due to dubious social media activity compared to 1 from Labour. Again I ask the question if this was a genuine attempt to root out a problem why is only one party in the firing line.
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This is the answer. The Tories haven't been referred to the ECHR so far as I know. The recent accusations on social media etc need to be seen in that wider context.
 
Is the reason the Tories and Brexit party aren’t taking part in the everything but brexit debate because they can’t blame the EU for everything over the last 10 years and keep repeating their catchphrase?
 
Chippy_boy said:
To what? It's patently obvious that the Labour party has had a deep-rooted problem with antisemitism which goes back years and still persists. It's also obvious that the Tory party has no such afflction. There may or may not have been isolated cases - I don't know every specific. But that's the long and the short of it. Only 1 party has the chief Rabbi condemning their leader. Only 1 party has the Jewish Chronicle urging Jews and none-Jews not to vote for them. That is THE LABOUR PARTY.

Now if you want to try to play silly games to try unsuccessfully to deflect from this, you can play them on your own.
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Tories find members accused of antisemitism, they investigate, 5 are found and are kicked out.

Labour find members accused of antisemitism, they investigate, say nothing is wrong/not antisemitism, and ignore the criticism for their inaction. There's the difference. To their credit, the Tories have at least acted. Labour doesn't even recognise it as antisemitism and keeps the members.

30 Labour candidates in this election have been accused of making antisemitic statements.
 
Chippy_boy said:
To what? It's patently obvious that the Labour party has had a deep-rooted problem with antisemitism which goes back years and still persists. It's also obvious that the Tory party has no such afflction. There may or may not have been isolated cases - I don't know every specific. But that's the long and the short of it. Only 1 party has the chief Rabbi condemning their leader. Only 1 party has the Jewish Chronicle urging Jews and none-Jews not to vote for them. That is THE LABOUR PARTY.

Now if you want to try to play silly games to try unsuccessfully to deflect from this, you can play them on your own.
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Not true according to conservative peer Baroness Warsi. She described Islamophobia in the Tory party as making her feel like she was in an abusive relationship. The British Muslim council criticised Johnsons comments on women looking like letter boxes as “feeding the far right”. During the Tory party leadership debates all the candidates, when asked by Sajid Javid, agreed to hold an investigation into Islamophobia during a BBC debate and it got canned.
 
blueparrot said:
Is the reason the Tories and Brexit party aren’t taking part in the everything but brexit debate because they can’t blame the EU for everything over the last 10 years and keep repeating their catchphrase?
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One of the reasons no doubt, another is a 10 point lead for the Tories in the polls. They are banking that the electorate's mind is made up and don't want to expose themselves to anything worse than taunts of Channel 4 cowardice.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Tories find members accused of antisemitism, they investigate, 5 are found and are kicked out.

Labour find members accused of antisemtism, they investigate, say nothing is wrong/not antisemtism, and ignore the criticism for their inaction. There's the difference. To their credit, the Tories have at least acted. Labour doesn't even recognise it as antisemitism and keeps the members.

30 Labour candidate in this election have been accused of making antisemitic statements.
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Have they acted with islamaphobia. They were going to to be fair until Johnson cancelled what he had agreed to.is antisemitism worse than islamaphobia? As bad as each other as far as I can see.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Tories find members accused of antisemitism, they investigate, 5 are found and are kicked out.

Labour find members accused of antisemitism, they investigate, say nothing is wrong/not antisemitism, and ignore the criticism for their inaction. There's the difference. To their credit, the Tories have at least acted. Labour doesn't even recognise it as antisemitism and keeps the members.

30 Labour candidates in this election have been accused of making antisemitic statements.
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Doesn’t the Labour leader have 11 accusations being investigated? He will still not stand down I expect post-election if @Labour lose...
 
Hesperus said:
Not true according to conservative peer Baroness Warsi. She described Islamophobia in the Tory party as making her feel like she was in an abusive relationship. The British Muslim council criticised Johnsons comments on women looking like letter boxes as “feeding the far right”. During the Tory party leadership debates all the candidates, when asked by Sajid Javid, agreed to hold an investigation into Islamophobia during a BBC debate and it got canned.
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The Baroness' criticism in that article is more nuanced than those quotes would seem to suggest. "In relation to Johnson, who prompted outrage by writing last year that woman wearing burqas looked like “letter boxes” and argued in 2007 that Islam caused the Muslim world to be “literally centuries behind”, she is more sympathetic, describing him as a “centre-ground, liberal Conservative”.“He’s made stupid remarks and I think he thinks he’s too clever by half. That’s just part of that well-to-do white privilege that comes in certain spaces, but I don’t think it’s pernicious … I don’t think he’s Islamophobic. I do not think he wants to go out and attack Muslims simply for being Muslim or wants to make life difficult for them. I genuinely don’t believe that. He’s no Michael Gove.” The British Muslim Council have a rather different agenda I think.
 
blueparrot said:
Have they acted with islamaphobia. They were going to to be fair until Johnson cancelled what he had agreed to.is antisemitism worse than islamaphobia? As bad as each other as far as I can see.
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Has it been as rampant as the antisemitism in Labour?

I've no idea. But we do know and have observed the antisemitism issue in Labour, which many keep deflecting away from by blaming the Tories for another thing.

Both are as bad as each other, but one issue is more rampant in one party than the other, and the Labour side is fervently more defensive and avoidant about the one affecting them. Tories response to islamophobia has been "is there? ok, we'll have a look". Labour's response has been "it's a right-wing Israeli conspiracy to undermine Corbyn".

Which is worse in your eyes?
 
George Hannah said:
The Baroness' criticism in that article is more nuanced than those quotes would seem to suggest. "In relation to Johnson, who prompted outrage by writing last year that woman wearing burqas looked like “letter boxes” and argued in 2007 that Islam caused the Muslim world to be “literally centuries behind”, she is more sympathetic, describing him as a “centre-ground, liberal Conservative”.“He’s made stupid remarks and I think he thinks he’s too clever by half. That’s just part of that well-to-do white privilege that comes in certain spaces, but I don’t think it’s pernicious … I don’t think he’s Islamophobic. I do not think he wants to go out and attack Muslims simply for being Muslim or wants to make life difficult for them. I genuinely don’t believe that. He’s no Michael Gove.” The British Muslim Council have a rather different agenda I think.
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Your reply sound a little like a Labour Party member trying to defend their parties handling of antisemitism?

If there is no problem in the Conservative party, why would Sajid Javid live on tv, ask the rest of the leadership hopefuls to agree to an investigation?
 
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