General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Chippy_boy]

Of course it would be a disaster. Anyone who has every run their own business knows it would be(and I was an IT contractor for 10 years before IR35 killed it as an option).
Incidently extending IR35 to other trades in April, really isn't a good idea. I raised this as a question at the local hustings and the Chancellor Sajid Javid (my MP) said the next budget with raise IR35 allowances to prevent damage. I hope so or it could be as bad as the Poll Tax to the future hopes of the Tory party.

FWIW, Did you see McDonnell now saying shareholder value is the root of all evil???!! He really genuinely is 100.0% bone fide Marxist isn't he.

Clearly he only presents externally what he thinks either the public like hearing about (vast spending on public services and other bribes) or what he can get away with. But I wonder what he really would have in mind if god forbid he ever got a majority??? It doesn't bear thinking of. We are talking full on proletarian revolution. We could genuinely look forward to the United Kingdom becoming yet another failed communist state. Of course he's never going to get that far, but what a frightening prospect.

 

[Metal Biker]

What social change? Specifically what are you referring to?

Specifically? What are you even on about?

There have been multiple radicalised opinions attacking moderate views that has seen a backlash from people who are getting fed up with extreme views and intolerance of differing opinions. That is one example of the many social changes we've seen in the discourse between people.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Errr?! No, I think you'll find it's a vote for the Lib Dems.

I thought you might be able to see beyond the literal. Maybe not.

 

[blueparrot]

Vote for Swinson = vote for Labour. Which is why you suggest it of course.

If it makes you feel better about voting for Johnson of course it is.

 

[robbieh]

Can you name me a country in Europe that has had a far-right government pre-2014, which was the era of anti-capitalist rhethoric which saw the rise of support for Trump, Brexit etc?

It's been a social change that has been far too aggressive towards people who hold moderate views. "Name a far left government in Europe" What does that have to do with anything with what i'm talking about? Spain has had a left wing socialist government, so has Portugal, Greece, Sweden, Italy.

It's like you've completely missed the point of what I was saying.

You said the rise in support for the far right was down to the far left. I didn't say there had been a far right government in power in Europe. You were implying there had been far left in power.

I live in Spain and I can tell you PSOE despite its name is not a socialist party in any way shape or form.

Syriza were until they got into power. I grant you Portugal has had a more radical agenda than Spain but it has done well.

So what you are saying is that the rise of the far right is to do with social stuff rather than economic. I agree.

Take Spain for example. Vox voters are pissed off about Catalunya, abortion,gay marriage, feminism,modern values in general.

They would like to go back to the old days, where a man knew where he stood in the world, John Wayne style.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

To be honest I doubt if anyone will read it. No one wants to know. This election is about denial.

Agree. Two bad options, most people are voting against what the perceive as the worst and ignoring the issues in the party they are voting for.

A huge number of voters are hoping for a hung parliament and that these two leaders get the sack. It is quite clearly the best we can hope for. Neither are fit to be PM. Corbyn has no chance so i dont see him as a risk. Johnson on the other hand is a lying racist, if he wins a majority it will be a disaster.

 

[Metal Biker]

You want something then take it, otherwise you're blowing it out your arse.

We are doing. :)

Corbyn loses, his record will be 0-2, against one of the weakest Conservative campaigns since, well the last one in which Corbyn was leading Labour against, how can you defend his position as leader if he has been rejected by the electorate twice? Momentum goes bye-bye, it and it's members shuffles off, you can form your own party if you like, and Labour rebuilds on a social democratic position.

 

[Metal Biker]

You said the rise in support for the far right was down to the far left. I didn't say there had been a far right government in power in Europe. You were implying there had been far left in power.

I live in Spain and I can tell you PSOE despite its name is not a socialist party in any way shape or form.

Syriza were until they got into power. I grant you Portugal has had a more radical agenda than Spain but it has done well.

So what you are saying is that the rise of the far right is to do with social stuff rather than economic. I agree.

Take Spain for example. Vox voters are pissed off about Catalunya, abortion,gay marriage, feminism,modern values in general.

They would like to go back to the old days, where a man knew where he stood in the world, John Wayne style.

Precisely, the rise of the far-right have been down to attitudes of people who hold far-left policies.

You mentioned governments, not me. Social atttudes have seen that people are ignoring their respective governments in power. This has started in university campuses and has spread.

When you've got people who advocate far-left opinions attacking liberals for being "too far-right", it's not hard to see where the problems started.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I thought you might be able to see beyond the literal. Maybe not.

You mean the lie beyond the literal.

 

[The perfect fumble]

We are doing. :)

Corbyn loses, his record will be 0-2, against one of the weakest Conservative campaigns since, well the last one in which Corbyn was leading Labour against, how can you defend his position as leader if he has been rejected by the electorate twice? Momentum goes bye-bye, it and it's members shuffles off, you can form your own party if you like, and Labour rebuilds on a social democratic position.

Yeah and we win the league.

 

[mcfc1632]

but actually it could be good in the long run.

Brexit will get done so that will be put to bed ( for now )

it will mean that labour will have moved so far left there will be proof that their traditional voters have left them.

Corbyn momentum and the communist angry hateful mob that has infected the party will hopefully be sidelined and a moderate sensible left of centre party can again emerge in the Labour Party and people will flock back to them. As it is badly needed in our politics.

Really well said

The LP need to rid themselves of the poison that is Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum etc. before it is too late - it nearly is.

It will take a lot to bring them back to the centre-left ground where they would be electable - and a hard shock this Thursday would only be the start as the hard-left will fight tooth and nail

If they win then politics in this country is badly served as the LP will replace the LibDems as the protest party and the LibDems will become the main opposition - but that will commit the country to 10 more years to hard-right Tory rule without effective challenge

Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum have already been able to do so much damage to the country - without being in power and their 'legacy' will be many more years of damage

 

[Metal Biker]

Yeah and we win the league.

That wouldn't be the Anti-Nowhere League, would it?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Really well said

The LP need to rid themselves of the poison that is Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum etc. before it is too late - it nearly is.

It will take a lot to bring them back to the centre-left ground where they would be electable - and a hard shock this Thursday would only be the start as the hard-left will fight tooth and nail

If they win then politics in this country is badly served as the LP will replace the LibDems as the protest party and the LibDems will become the main opposition - but that will commit the country to 10 more years to hard-right Tory rule without effective challenge

Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum have already been able to do so much damage to the country - without being in power and their 'legacy' will be many more years of damage

Yeah, all the way with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

 

[Chippy_boy]

If it makes you feel better about voting for Johnson of course it is.

I am no fan of Boris, as I've said on here many times. I'm no fan of the Tory party in its current state either.

But the alternative is so staggeringly, off-the-scale worse as to make the decision as to which way to vote, a no-brainer.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum have already been able to do so much damage to the country - without being in power and their 'legacy' will be many more years of damage

At best. God help everyone if they were to win.

 

[joe123]

I am no fan of Boris, as I've said on here many times. I'm no fan of the Tory party in its current state either.

But the alternative is so staggeringly, off-the-scale worse as to make the decision as to which way to vote, a no-brainer.

I imagine a lot of Labour voters, like myself, think the same of their side!

 

[The perfect fumble]

That wouldn't be the Anti-Nowhere League, would it?

Might be, I've no doubt there's a parallel reality somewhere, where the Labour Party is actually anti-Semitic.

 

[blueinsa]

I am no fan of Boris, as I've said on here many times. I'm no fan of the Tory party in its current state either.

But the alternative is so staggeringly, off-the-scale worse as to make the decision as to which way to vote, a no-brainer.

The current situation and likely result come Thursday was foretold by many on here for the last few years.

Confidently they told us it wouldn't happen and they called us names.

Now its looking a certainty and that they are wrong, they call us names.

Could and should have been all so different but no....they know better except it appears they actually dont..........

 

[robbieh]

Precisely, the rise of the far-right have been down to attitudes of people who hold far-left policies.

You mentioned governments, not me. Social atttudes have seen that people are ignoring their respective governments in power. This has started in university campuses and has spread.

When you've got people who advocate far-left opinions attacking liberals for being "too far-right", it's not hard to see where the problems started.

I believe in gay marriage, the right for a woman to choose, am against blood sports, and not opposed to the right of self determination. Are these ideas far left?

 

[Metal Biker]

I am no fan of Boris, as I've said on here many times. I'm no fan of the Tory party in its current state either.

But the alternative is so staggeringly, off-the-scale worse as to make the decision as to which way to vote, a no-brainer.

Those choices being;

Conservative majority
Corbyn/Momentum majority (I refuse to call them 'Labour')
Hung parliament.

No-one wants a hung parliament, I cannot abide Corbyn and Momentum deciding policy, so...

I won't vote for them, but if I wake up on Dec 13th and see Boris grinning like a cheshire cat, i'll be like "right... time to step down Corbyn"

A Tory win is preciesly what Labour moderates need to put pressure on his supporters to say "he's not good enough". Miliband only had one crack at the whip, why does Corbyn get two (or three?)