Another new Brexit thread

[kevin horlocks wand]

Yes, that's obviously the answer. Have a great day.

well if you can answer my post below I will defer to your greater knowledge.

 

[Metal Biker]

Because remaining was still the most preferable of the two options

You've avoided the question twice now, remain lost in 2016. It was no longer an option.

Why didn't you then promote EFTA membership? WHEN were you going to begin promoting EFTA membership? It's very easy to say something was your "second preferred option" when you have no intention of supporting it, like I suspect you are doing now.

WHEN were you going to start advocating for EFTA?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

You've avoided the question twice now, remain lost in 2016. It was no longer an option.

Why didn't you then promote EFTA membership? WHEN were you going to begin promoting EFTA membership? It's very easy to say something was your "second preferred option" when you have no intention of supporting it, like I suspect you are doing now.

WHEN were you going to start advocating for EFTA?

Because a second ref was still a small possiblity until the snp and lib Dems got greedy and thought they could gain more seats and ended up screwing themselves.

Ergo remaining was still a possibility

 

[Metal Biker]

Because a second ref was still a small possiblity until the snp and lib Dems got greedy and thought they could gain more seats and ended up screwing themselves.

Ergo remaining was still a possibility

So now you're advocating for EFTA membership?

Yeah I call bullshit, I don't recall a single post from you on the issue since December.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

So now you're advocating for EFTA membership?

Yeah I call bullshit

Well no. It's gone, Johnson's brexit deal has been passed and that won't be changing with the current majority.

 

[Metal Biker]

Well no. It's gone, Johnson's brexit deal has been passed and that won't be changing with the current majority.

There is nothing stopping us rejoining the EFTA after 1st February 2020, especially if there is enough public demand for it.

You could be there now, campaigning for it. But no.

 

[mcfc1632]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

As you asked @kevin horlocks wand

Why bother?

There Remains a small cadre of posters that just ignore what has been answered many times and are incredibly effective at decieving themselves as they attempt to deceive others

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

There is nothing stopping us rejoining the EFTA after 1st February 2020, especially if there is enough public demand for it.

Naive in the extreme

 

[Metal Biker]

Naive in the extreme

What's naive about pointing out that the UK can join the EFTA at any time after brexit if it wishes?
That's just obvious fact.

 

[inbetween]

Playing devil's advocate here, but neither Canada nor Japan have half their exports going to the EU. nor are so reliant upon their services sectors as we are.

Canada and Japan aren't members of the EU yet they each have trade deals that support their exports/imports to/from the EU.

If we banded our trading relationships by country and growth areas then less importance would be given to the EU.

Our fastest growing and largest specific market is the US and as part of the EU we are prohibited from making any trading arrangement whatsoever with them.

It makes more sense to bank the shop on US growth and non-EU growth than it does on low value trade from multiple smaller countries in Europe (who are the only ones actually growing).

Let's put it this way, Germany is our biggest partner in Europe and will we see German 3% growth over the next 5 years? Will we hell. So where will the orders come from instead? Italy, Portugal?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

What's naive about pointing out that the UK can join the EFTA at any time after brexit if it wishes?
That's just obvious fact.

The same way it would be naive to suggest we could rejoin the EU on the 1st February. It ain't gonna happen

 

[mcfc1632]

1 We make our money back through access to the biggest trading bloc in the world

2 Net immigration is higher from the rest of the world than the EU, shouldn't we look to control this first?

3 & 4 You've essentially made the same point here, why is having too many politicians a bag thing? Isn't more democracy a good thing?

5 Which trading agreements would you like to see that would see us more economically prosperous? Because we've already lost bucket loads of money and are now worse off

6 Which EU law do you dislike? Let's not forget that we do still have our own laws, for example Scotland's age of consent for marriage is 16 without parental consent, England is 18.

Oh and here's one of those negative stories that have come true because of brexit. The economy has had £130 billion wiped from it because of this nonsensical crap

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-and-counting-the-cost-of-brexit-for-the-u-k

Imagine how much money could've been spent on the NHS instead, still at least the bananas will be all bendy.

Do you genuinely consider those to be persuasive arguments - lol that you admit to not knowing the difference between 3&4 - and your answer to 2 is proper missing the point

You do understand that FOM commits member states to acting with discrimination don't you?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Fo you genuinely consider those to be persuasive arguments
- lol that you admit to not knowing the difference between 3&4 and your answer to 2 is proper missing the point

You do understand that FOM commits member states to acting with discrimination don't you?

3&4 are both similar points which is why I grouped them.

No freedom of movement does not commit member states to acting with discrimination, we are free to control our own immigration policy outside the EU as we please

 

[Metal Biker]

The same way it would be naive to suggest we could rejoin the EU on the 1st February. It ain't gonna happen

What are you even talking to me about. You're just waffling.

Either advocate for EFTA after brexit or don't claim that you ever would have done.

 

[Len Rum]

Mate stop going on about Jezza being responsible for no deal Brexit if it happens.
No deal is so last summer anyway.
Let me tell you where the smart money is.
The final deal will be a basic Canada style deal on goods without any price tariffs or quotas but subject to level playing field rules, the adherence to which will be monitored by an independent body.
It won't be possible to cover all goods sectors by end 2020 so the deal will be signed with some goods traded on WTO terms until they can be brought into the agreement.
Services won't be covered except for financial ones which will be subject to regulatory equivalence ( less integration than currently).
A deal of this nature has always been on offer from the EU from the start.
It will however be hailed as a victory giving us everything we want.
Most people don't understand the difference between price tariffs and non tariff barriers and won't notice that services aren't covered.
If the above negotiations fail then trade will be initially on WTO terms until a more comprehensive deal on the above terms can be sorted. Essential stuff like airline flights, road transport ,basic security, provision of essential supplies ( both ways)will be covered separately.
Hope this helps.

Sums it up nicely. No great disaster, no great triumph. The devil will be in some arcane arguments, say on banking.

Err...sort of like, but it's not quite 50/50 that the economy could go one way or the other.
Even Brexiters admit a short term economic hit.
The Govt. won't produce updated forecasts which tells you all you need to know.
The consensus among economists (LSE, fullfacts, earlier Treasury forecasts etc) is that a Canada type deal will mean a 7% reduction in GDP over 10 years compared to where GDP would otherwise have been had we stayed in the EU ( these forecasts include the benefit of the rebate).
That does not mean that we will be worse off in ten years , just that we will be 10% less well off than we otherwise would have been in ten years.
By no means economic armageddon and yes forecasts can be wrong particularly over such a long time period and the impact of Brexit could get lost in other economic and political issues.
Anyway in some ways it doesn't really matter now.What will be will be.
Personally I still think Brexit will be the cover for lowering of workers rights and benefits and increasing deregulation in order to increase UK competitiveness.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The fact is, for a partner such as the UK, it should be 100%, if we really cared about the "project". We don't so let's make it about trade. 87% clearly says, "yeah, let's just make trade and work easier"

You're not restricted at all. You can still migrate, travel and work in the EU just as you can anywhere else in the world.

You're portraying a "remoaner" stereotype right now with these arguments, and i've already had them.

Err no .... you cant .... as a third country you cannot stay / live in the Eu for more than 6 months out of any 12 month period ...... so you wont be able to retire to the Eu (those that are there already should be ok as long as the UK reciprocates)..... so thanks for that

 

[Metal Biker]

Err no .... you cant .... as a third country you cannot stay / live in the Eu for more than 6 months out of any 12 month period ...... so you wont be able to retire to the Eu (those that are there already should be ok as long as the UK reciprocates)..... so thanks for that

Yes you can, you can apply for citizenship.

You want to live/retire in a country in Europe, nobody is stopping you.

 

[mexico1970]

Yes you can, you can apply for citizenship.

You want to live/retire in a country in Europe, nobody is stopping you.

My uncle moved to France in the late 60's and still lives there, people have always done that if they wanted haven't they?

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Yes you can, you can apply for citizenship.

You want to live/retire in a country in Europe, nobody is stopping you.

I think you will find that post Jan 31st they would stop you until you meet some criteria and fill in a load of forms, and you would not have access to healthcare etc so you would need to go private for anything like that. If you genuinely want to retire to the EU you are not in a good place right now.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You want to live/retire in a country in Europe, nobody is stopping you.

That's a misleading statement at best. At the moment, we have unconditional right to live/work/retire in any EU country and in all probability these rights will disappear post-Brexit.

Sure, you can *apply* to live/work/retire in another EU country, but that does NOT mean "nobody is stopping you". Absolutely the local country may stop you. Or they may impose restrictions which effectively stop you - such as you having to prove financial independence or have minimum savings levels for example.

It is disingenuous to say "nobody is stopping you". For a large number of people - I would suggest probably for the majority - their right to live/work/retire abroad in the EU will soon vanish.