Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

Thank fuck I will be in brussels that day rather than watching this wanky shite going on.

What a waste of time and money, I expect 11:01pm will feel no different than 10:59pm except to the sad fucks that are ardent leave or remain.

Both sides get over yourselves and get on with life, money could be spent on important things.

I think that you will find that most Leave posters on here fully agree

But your point that things will largely be the same after 11pm should indeed be emphasised and monitored. Before the referendum many Remainers were clear that there would be no end of major issues befalling the UK with immediate effect just as a result of a vote to leave.

We have since heard of a further litany of woes that will crash down on the UK should we ever actually leave - do you think that they may have been scare-mongering?

 

[mcfc1632]

To accept the result of the referendum you don't have to think the process is actually a good idea. I think brexit is one of the most ridiculous, self harming economic decisions that has been taken by a country in recent years.

This country isn't a cult where all must accept every single decision as a fantastic idea.

Yes - YOU - do think that - as is your right

Clearly - @BlueHammer85 - thinks that - as is clearly his right

My post commented on his statement that:

" .....most people have accepted it’s been a complete waste of time."

Which would clearly appear to be not right and for me suggests that he is not one of those that have accepted the result

I agree - the country is not a cult - and there is no need for everyone to accept every single decision as a fantastic idea - BTW I never suggested that.

Equally - there is no need to invent spurious bollocks to try an describe the situation as something the poster would wish it to be rather than what it is.

I made a factual statement that I am: "Not hearing many Leavers stating that it’s been a complete waste of time"

​

 

[nmc]

Brexit Day will be (in my view) as good as it gets for Brexiteers. After that it’ll be a long slow struggle. No formal trading partners within 12 months (well we have got Malta and the Faroe Islands lined up) - but I doubt Johnson will get a deal with the EU so we lose the 27 plus all their trade deals! a decision not to align standards with the EU will prevent us exporting to them in any case - even Switzerland know they have to align standards, it’s going to be a race to the bottom as we slash food and safety standards (did we learn nothing at Grenfell ?) The removal of ‘passporting’ will seriously hamper the financial sector and we seem obsessed with getting a trade deal with the US but recent history will tell us that strong lobbies in the US will remove some sectors and the US will want a significant trade surplus in their favour. By all means celebrate Brexit but it’s gonna be a long hard struggle to realise any benefits and it won’t be all plain sailing particularly with a government that seems to be making policy up as it goes along in the absence of a defined Brexit strategy.

 

[journolud]

The truth is, as always, in between. His life hasn’t been ruined by EU membership and yours won’t be for being out of the EU.

Yes I know, I was responding to his ridiculously over the top post with sarcasm. Matter of fact I don’t expect to be adversely affected by Brexit unless you count a shortage of fruit come picking season or higher prices/ wages to encourage British pickers. Ironically those with most to lose are those constituencies most in favour of it. Will be interesting to see how the tories balance their natural inclination to screw over the working class and the vulnerable with the need to reward their borrowed voters and mitigate the worst potential impact of Brexit

I do expect my two sons to have reduced possibilities due to Brexit but as we’ve touched on before politics and economical evolution have already started that process

 

[Vic]

You are sinking further and further down to the level of those that post without thinking / reading things through in their haste to try an score a cheap point

This is another post that offers nothing - the quotes you provide come from that article I link as does his statements of intent to carry on protesting...….

“The fight carries on, absolutely,” Bray told Reuters on Friday outside parliament, dressed in his usual uniform of a blue and yellow hat - the colours of the EU flag - and wearing a large joint Union Jack and EU flag on his back.

“I’m going to do everything I can, and I’m sure millions of other people will too. Whilst we are still in the European Union there is hope, albeit the odds are stacked against us. Rome was not built in a day.”

…...- even if not outside Westminster.

The main point of my post was to commend the quality of the post from @inbetween and also to note that there are a reducing number of diehards that are unable to get off their treadmill because they are lost in their habit of protesting. He was given as an example - you seem to be becoming another one.

Your post just confirms the veracity of my point

You add the phrase "even if not outside Westminster" to what he said and think that excuses you from posting to imply that what he said a month means he hasn't accepted that he's lost. That's pathetic (but it was good enough to get someone else on board).

You really should listen to that talk by Shriver.

For Leavers it's about having won. For Remainers it's about being right.

So who's right? Javid then or Javid now? Nothing has changed to mean what he said 3 years ago is wrong. If it helps you don't need to read the whole thing, as it's mostly just the stuff Remainers here have argued, but feel free to answer his main question.

I can see why some people want to leave the EU. Arguments about national identity and sovereignty pack an emotional punch. But for anyone who cares about British jobs, it comes down to one key question.

Do businesses want the benefits and security of continued access to the Single Market, or the instability and uncertainty of a lost decade?

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

After three years of listening to the EU spout off about what terms they are prepared to offer the UK it is refreshing to hear Javid putting a few markers down as to what the UK will or won't accept.

The EU probably couldn't believe their luck when the compliant May made Europhile insider Olly Robbins chief negotiator and the fact that there was a Remain majority Parliament in place. No wonder they factored in the calculation that Brexit might never actually happen if they could spin things out - even I would take that approach. However the game has changed and negotiations will be a lot tougher from now on. I still think there will be a deal but expect lots of noise from both sides for domestic consumption.

 

[KS55]

After three years of listening to the EU spout off about what terms they are prepared to offer the UK it is refreshing to hear Javid putting a few markers down as to what the UK will or won't accept.

The EU probably couldn't believe their luck when the compliant May made Europhile insider Olly Robbins chief negotiator and the fact that there was a Remain majority Parliament in place. No wonder they factored in the calculation that Brexit might never actually happen if they could spin things out - even I would take that approach. However the game has changed and negotiations will be a lot tougher from now on. I still think there will be a deal but expect lots of noise from both sides for domestic consumption.

When Boris told them there was no chance of May's deal being passed and, if they didn't renegotiate it was no deal exit, Barnier's face said it all:
"But Mrs May never said this", he whined.

 

[Vic]

After three years of listening to the EU spout off about what terms they are prepared to offer the UK it is refreshing to hear Javid putting a few markers down as to what the UK will or won't accept.

The EU probably couldn't believe their luck when the compliant May made Europhile insider Olly Robbins chief negotiator and the fact that there was a Remain majority Parliament in place. No wonder they factored in the calculation that Brexit might never actually happen if they could spin things out - even I would take that approach. However the game has changed and negotiations will be a lot tougher from now on. I still think there will be a deal but expect lots of noise from both sides for domestic consumption.

Javid putting down markers for exactly the sort of Brexit he warned about - before he lost his principles or his common sense or both.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Javid putting down markers for exactly the sort of Brexit he warned about - before he lost his principles or his common sense or both.

Games changed, Vic. Get with the programme, Javid has.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Javid putting down markers for exactly the sort of Brexit he warned about - before he lost his principles or his common sense or both.

Its the candid admission that not all businesses will benefit that gets me - after a referendum campaign in which Leave told us everything and everybody will be better when we Leave. We are down for a No Deal Brexit if that attitude persists. If we reject all alignment out of hand thats something that all the remaining 27 will never agree to - some people are going to look in the kennel and see instead of that big fierce dog that they thought we had to frighten the world that we have been sold a pup.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Its the candid admission that not all businesses will benefit that gets me - after a referendum campaign in which Leave told us everything and everybody will be better when we Leave. We are down for a No Deal Brexit if that attitude persists. If we reject all alignment out of hand thats something that all the remaining 27 will never agree to - some people are going to look in the kennel and see instead of that big fierce dog that they thought we had to frighten the world that we have been sold a pup.

Or it could be a negotiating position..like the ones the EU has been broadcasting for the last three years.

 

[stonerblue]

YAY....friction-less trade, an end to stupid bureaucracy and cheaper prices...

 

[meltonblue]

On the Big Ben thing and the countdown, I get there’s a lot of people happy about leaving the EU. I work for a multinational pharmaceutical company that has already made people redundant due to Brexit though.

In the longer term, they may well all be fine and settle into different jobs, but something doesn’t sit right with me about being overly celebratory about something that has had such an impact on some people’s livelihoods in the short term.

Regardless of anyone’s overall position, at least a little bit of empathy wouldn’t go amiss at times. However happy anyone is that that we’re leaving, remember someone else is sat there with a family worrying about their personal future.

 

[nmc]

Games changed, Vic. Get with the programme, Javid has.

A position that’ll leave large parts of the UK economy unable to export to the EU. Very smart... so that’ll finish the few parts of our manufacturing industry we have left. See the response from industry to this idiotic positioning by our Chancellor.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Or it could be a negotiating position..like the ones the EU has been broadcasting for the last three years.

Eh ??? Is that how you'd negotiate then? Tell the EU they have to give in to our every demand or we will chop one of our fingers off on the hour every hour? That'll show them.

 

[Vic]

Games changed, Vic. Get with the programme, Javid has.

Nothing he warned about back then has changed. All that's changed is that he's now promoting the very things he warned against.

Essentially he's now advocating policies he believes to be damaging to the economy of the country. You might not think they are but he does.

 

[Vic]

On the Big Ben thing and the countdown, I get there’s a lot of people happy about leaving the EU. I work for a multinational pharmaceutical company that has already made people redundant due to Brexit though.

In the longer term, they may well all be fine and settle into different jobs, but something doesn’t sit right with me about being overly celebratory about something that has had such an impact on some people’s livelihoods in the short term.

Regardless of anyone’s overall position, at least a little bit of empathy wouldn’t go amiss at times. However happy anyone is that that we’re leaving, remember someone else is sat there with a family worrying about their personal future.

I'm not sure. It is about winning. Damage to business, to our reputation... all secondary to winning. Empathy (for people out of work, for EU citizens, for UK citizens abroad or who might want to work abroad) would spoil the fun.

 

[blueinsa]

I'm not sure. It is about winning. Damage to business, to our reputation... all secondary to winning. Empathy (for people out of work, for EU citizens, for UK citizens abroad or who might want to work abroad) would spoil the fun.

It is about democracy Vic.

Process that and you will be able to move on.

 

[Vic]

It is about democracy Vic.

Process that and you will be able to move on.

Not even democracy makes stuff right that was wrong. You might never have thought the Remain arguments were right but Javid did. He could still argue that democracy means we have to leave but that's no reason to be now advocating a policy that he knows is bad for Britain. (Of course Johnson too knows this but he's gone for telling people what they want to hear rather than what he knows to be true.)

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Eh ??? Is that how you'd negotiate then? Tell the EU they have to give in to our every demand or we will chop one of our fingers off on the hour every hour? That'll show them.

You appear to have no understanding of the word 'negotiations'.

The basic concept is that you have maximum demands, a preferred outcome and a point at which you will not agree to what is on offer.