Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
From someone slagging off Verhofstadt for still liking us.
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I actually found the words of the EU hierarchy genuinely touching tonight, and Farage and co utterly classless. I think if EU leaders had spoken like this about the UK previously rather than arrogantly scoffed at brexit then we may not have left. Sad all round.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I actually found the words of the EU hierarchy genuinely touching tonight, and Farage and co utterly classless. I think if EU leaders had spoken like this about the UK previously rather than arrogantly scoffed at brexit then we may not have left. Sad all round.
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My guess is that they probably have spoken about the UK like this (whatever this was).
 
Ancient Citizen said:
For anyone still upset, at £27 quid a pop, these beach towels are still available...

1235_300x300_Front_Color-White.jpg


Being EU towels, you pay £27, but they give you back £15 to spend on ice creams ;)
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Beach towels you say

Be handy for some to dry their tears on Friday;-)
 
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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I actually found the words of the EU hierarchy genuinely touching tonight, and Farage and co utterly classless. I think if EU leaders had spoken like this about the UK previously rather than arrogantly scoffed at brexit then we may not have left. Sad all round.
Click to expand...
As a long-standing supporter of Leaving the EU I have said a thank you over years for the arrogance shown by the EU which I feel was a differentiating factor to get the 2016 vote over the line.

But of course whilst that arrogance was helpful to the cause that I support - it was indeed unnecessary and avoidable. The EU should learn from this lesson - but I doubt they will - from the key speeches it seems that they will do the opposite.

A few things have become clearer through the 'prepared speeches' - from Verhofstadt's speech the truth of the future of the EU was laid bare. As was the truth that opt-outs and vetoes have been for a long time destined and actively planned to become a thing of the past and provide no comfort or protection for the UK.

I thought Daniel Hannan spoke well and was clear that it was the transition from a Trading Bloc into the European Superstate project that was the reason the UK had to leave.

A couple of the German Euro sceptics spoke well - but were clear that they recognised that the EU will continue to ignore the issues that have led to Brexit

But overall - it became clear that the EU is set to continue and even accelerate its superstate project - the lessons learned seem to have been in the main how to prevent other nations regaining sovereignty
 
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mcfc1632 said:
As a long-standing supporter of Leaving the EU I have said a thank you over years for the arrogance shown by the EU which I feel was a differentiating factor to get the 2016 vote over the line.

But of course whilst that arrogance was helpful to the cause that I support - it was indeed unnecessary and avoidable. The EU should learn from this lesson - but I doubt they will - from the key speeches it seems that they will do the opposite.

A few things have become clearer through the 'prepared speeches' - from Verhofstadt's speech the truth of the future of the EU was laid bare. As was the truth that opt-outs and vetoes have been for a long time destined and actively planned to become a thing of the past and provide no comfort or protection for the UK.

I thought Daniel Hannan spoke well and was clear that it was the transition from a Trading Bloc into the European Superstate project that was the reason the UK had to leave.

A couple of the German Euro sceptics spoke well - but were clear that they recognised that the EU will continue to ignore the issues that have led to Brexit

But overall - it became clear that the EU is set to continue and even accelerate its superstate project - the lessons learned seem to have been in the main how to prevent other nations regaining sovereignty
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You seem like this moving towards a superstate is some new revelation, like finally we know the truth or something? I find that surprising. The objective of the EU has been the creation of a European superstate, ever since 1957, and perhaps even before that - before it was formed. The loosely-coupled collection of states merely forming a trading bloc was a mere diversion, perhaps given legs by one Margaret Thatcher, especially with her desire to significantly broaden the membership and thereby making the necessary precursors to full union - fiscal, monetary and political alignment more difficult. But the end game was always the United States of Europe.

I fully recognised this and had no issues with it. Either we would continue maintain our opt outs, and perhaps encourage a two-speed approach to unification, or we wouldn't. The idea of Europe being one country is in many ways quite appealing. (And other ways not of course, but on balance not something I was losing any sleep over.)
 
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mcfc1632 said:
As a long-standing supporter of Leaving the EU I have said a thank you over years for the arrogance shown by the EU which I feel was a differentiating factor to get the 2016 vote over the line.

But of course whilst that arrogance was helpful to the cause that I support - it was indeed unnecessary and avoidable. The EU should learn from this lesson - but I doubt they will - from the key speeches it seems that they will do the opposite.

A few things have become clearer through the 'prepared speeches' - from Verhofstadt's speech the truth of the future of the EU was laid bare. As was the truth that opt-outs and vetoes have been for a long time destined and actively planned to become a thing of the past and provide no comfort or protection for the UK.

I thought Daniel Hannan spoke well and was clear that it was the transition from a Trading Bloc into the European Superstate project that was the reason the UK had to leave.

A couple of the German Euro sceptics spoke well - but were clear that they recognised that the EU will continue to ignore the issues that have led to Brexit

But overall - it became clear that the EU is set to continue and even accelerate its superstate project - the lessons learned seem to have been in the main how to prevent other nations regaining sovereignty
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The answer is "more EU".

I sincerely hope they all enjoy it.

My guess is many wont and we wont be the last to leave.
 
Chippy_boy said:
You seem like this moving towards a superstate is some new revelation, like finally we know the truth or something? I find that surprising. The objective of the EU has been the creation of a European superstate, ever since 1957, and perhaps even before that - before it was formed. The loosely-coupled collection of states merely forming a trading bloc was a mere diversion, perhaps given legs by one Margaret Thatcher, especially with her desire to significantly broaden the membership and thereby making the necessary precursors to full union - fiscal, monetary and political alignment more difficult. But the end game was always the United States of Europe.

I fully recognised this and had no issues with it. Either we would continue maintain our opt outs, and perhaps encourage a two-speed approach to unification, or we wouldn't. The idea of Europe being one country is in main ways quite appealing. (And other ways not of course, but on balance not something I was particularly concerned about.)
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It doesn't appear to be the case for a lot of people it seems, who did think we were just joining a trade bloc and that the 'revelation' of a federal Europe is indeed a concept they've just become aware of. It's not like our own leaders, MP's, MEP's or those in Europe have mentioned it at every turn. We even have had remainers who have denied a European Federal Superstate is a "dangerous leaver fantasy". Even on here, people have been accused of not having "evidence" that an EU Federal Superstate was ever the reality of the future for Europe. It's all been very misleading.

From my own experience, growing up in the 90's I always regarded the EU and was under the impression it was just something "in the background" as part of my life as a British citizen. Never gave it a moment's thought, saw the UK as an independent, sovereign country that was in a big group of European Nations, like a mini UN. That was it.

In the late 2000's when it became clear to me the "United States of Europe" was always the end goal for the future of Europe, I couldn't support that concept. If it was something that was always obvious they've been very surreptitious in how thye've gone about it because they appear to know that to people who do appreciate, embrace and prefer national identity and diversity over federalism, a United States of Europe is not a Europe they want to see develop or become part of.

It really has boiled down to people being fully aware of the question of do you want to see Europe become federal or not and many have chosen 'no'. If they hadn't pressed on and kept Europe as a union of nations, there's every possibility we wouldn't be leaving tomorrow, in my opinion.
 
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mcfc1632 said:
As a long-standing supporter of Leaving the EU I have said a thank you over years for the arrogance shown by the EU which I feel was a differentiating factor to get the 2016 vote over the line.

But of course whilst that arrogance was helpful to the cause that I support - it was indeed unnecessary and avoidable. The EU should learn from this lesson - but I doubt they will - from the key speeches it seems that they will do the opposite.

A few things have become clearer through the 'prepared speeches' - from Verhofstadt's speech the truth of the future of the EU was laid bare. As was the truth that opt-outs and vetoes have been for a long time destined and actively planned to become a thing of the past and provide no comfort or protection for the UK.

I thought Daniel Hannan spoke well and was clear that it was the transition from a Trading Bloc into the European Superstate project that was the reason the UK had to leave.

A couple of the German Euro sceptics spoke well - but were clear that they recognised that the EU will continue to ignore the issues that have led to Brexit

But overall - it became clear that the EU is set to continue and even accelerate its superstate project - the lessons learned seem to have been in the main how to prevent other nations regaining sovereignty
Click to expand...
For me the most telling was the MEP who said that (paraphrasing) "this house needs to come together to ensure 'brexit' can never be discussed in this house again".

Which I took to mean that they would make changes to EU laws to ensure it becomes even more diffcult for any other member to be able to opt out or leave the EU in the future.

A bit disconcerting, but not unexpected from this current EU mindset.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Get used to it Len. You've another 10 years of this to enjoy. 20 maybe unless you change your tune.
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They won't. Especially when you see the likes of Wrong-Daily have gone full 'Principle Skinner' about why they lost.

“I was in a state of shock and it was as if everything I believed being ripped up before my very eyes, that everything we fought and we’re so proud of was suddenly invalidated, no-one wanted us, no-one wanted socialism.”

“And then I pushed that thought out of my head because I thought ‘that’s bollocks’,”

3nmz3y.jpg
 
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