UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Centurions]

When the club tried to stop the investigation in November and was told by the CAS that UEFA could continue and could use the material that was gained unlawfully, the writing was on the wall...

Except that CAS never said that did they...

...but I think people are more or less of the same opinion here that City have been teetering on the edge of FFP for some time and may or may not have slipped up...

Which 'people' are you talking about? 11 straight years of revenue growth and 5 straight years of profit say otherwise.

 

[davek1808]

Glad you pulled him up on that piece of disinformation. I saw it but was busy at work and intended to come back later but it had slipped my mind.

Meanwhile, here's my lengthy opinion of David Conn and his work that appeared about 1200 pages back on this very thread in June 2019. I like to think that the events of this week are proving me right.

[Conn] turned up to interview Franny for a north west business publication and said that the experience left him knowing that he'd been "talking to a businessman", as if it was the most pejorative label that could possibly be attached to an interviewee. What disgraceful temerity from Franny. Someone arrives to interview you for a business magazine and you talk about business. Conn's description of the episode sounds laughably juvenile.

He's knowledgeable but not to the degree a lot of people think. He has nothing like the level of insight that someone such as Stefan from the 93:20 pod does, but then Stefan is CEO of a public company and also their senior in-house lawyer, with a track record of having advised the boards of top football clubs in his past. Conn qualified as a solicitor but left the profession immediately after doing so. As someone who's supervised newly qualified solicitors and has been one, I can tell you that their ability to navigate complex legal issues such as this is really not all that. He's probably the most knowledgeable current British journalist about business issues in sport, but very much in an 'in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King' kind of way.

I gave my view of this latest piece by Conn in this thread last night, and at quite some length. It's possible he may be right, but if he is, it seems a senseless move from City's point of view. Yet if he's made any attempt to discern why City may be more confident of their case than he is, or what arguments we may put forward that distinguish the case from the precedent he refers to in his article, there's absolutely no sign of it. He may well have asked for a view from a sports law expert before writing, but the problem with that is that to get the right answers, you need to ask the right questions. I don't think I can be confident that he has.

More generally, Conn has shifted away from his usual subject matter when started out, which had a focus on exposing wrongdoing and sharp practices in the game. Then, he wrote for The Independent and produced two excellent books. In those days, I thought he was very good - and sometimes better than that. However, for reasons far beyond the tone, I loathe the specious, holier-than-thou role he's espoused over several years in The Guardian as a self-appointed conscience of modern football. Beyond some half-baked fan ownership nonsense, never does he put forward any constructive ideas for improvement amid his dreary whinges about the state of the modern game.

Moreover, there's no room for nuance. Almost every observation is refracted through the lens of Conn's own beliefs, often in a way that's simply sophomoric. Thus, we were treated to his eccentric observation in a Guardian column that, given the flaws in the PL's current model, "fan-owned Real Madrid" are an exemplar of moral rectitude in the modern game. We have his unabashed, uncritical adoration of a FC United, an outfit whose main asset - which translates into enormous media and political goodwill - is an identity they've leeched off one of the world's most famous clubs. And when he discusses why football was ethically superior in a bygone golden age (that never actually existed), he's egregious in the way he's blind (wilfully or otherwise) to the many drawbacks of the past and improvements in the modern age.

All these faults were fully evident in Richer Than God, which I'm glad I borrowed as opposed to shelling out my own cash on it. Like so many of his articles, the book merely served as an exercise in Conn trying to substantiate his simplistic philosophy by taking liberties with the facts and rational analysis. I find it all the more difficult to sympathise with that modus operandi given that I consider the philosophy in question to amount to little more than vapid, hand-wringing bullshit.

So sorry, those who profess admiration for him. You admire Conn if you want to. But put me down in the 'not a fan' camp.​

So basically the man's a twat and I concur.

 

[Blueknows]

Its not only the 2014 settlement agreement they screwed us over.

Back in 2012 we were speaking to them regularly to gain reassurance about what we were doing to be able to take advantage of that Annex XI wages get-out. In told that not once but three times, we were assured that we were on the right path to be able to do that.

What the dodgy fuckers didn't tell us is that they were planning to change the way they calculated that while thing, which they did after it was too late.

So we've had two lots of assurances from them now, where they've got what they want and screwed us. Why would we take anything they said about "assurances" remotely seriously? We've been bitten twice now.

Plus they moved the goalposts AFTER we had submitted our accounts

 

[BlueMoonz1977]

Have a read of this regarding Yves Leterme and the PSG case back in 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/sports/psg-uefa-ffp.html

Seems Yves Leterme had the interests of Qatar at heart allowing PSG to get off the hook. Interesting that Bein Sports had at the time secured a multi-million dollar deal to become a UEFA partner

I think that this along with other information could effectively show UEFA for what they are if we decide to go after them

 

[iwasthere1968]

The potential loss of earnings alone could bankrupt UEFA and there lies the problem, are the G14 using us to break the CL so they can all go to the FIFA club league

Precisely my suspicion

 

[Nails]

Glad you pulled him up on that piece of disinformation. I saw it but was busy at work and intended to come back later but it had slipped my mind.

Meanwhile, here's my lengthy opinion of David Conn and his work that appeared about 1200 pages back on this very thread in June 2019. I like to think that the events of this week are proving me right.

[Conn] turned up to interview Franny for a north west business publication and said that the experience left him knowing that he'd been "talking to a businessman", as if it was the most pejorative label that could possibly be attached to an interviewee. What disgraceful temerity from Franny. Someone arrives to interview you for a business magazine and you talk about business. Conn's description of the episode sounds laughably juvenile.

He's knowledgeable but not to the degree a lot of people think. He has nothing like the level of insight that someone such as Stefan from the 93:20 pod does, but then Stefan is CEO of a public company and also their senior in-house lawyer, with a track record of having advised the boards of top football clubs in his past. Conn qualified as a solicitor but left the profession immediately after doing so. As someone who's supervised newly qualified solicitors and has been one, I can tell you that their ability to navigate complex legal issues such as this is really not all that. He's probably the most knowledgeable current British journalist about business issues in sport, but very much in an 'in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King' kind of way.

I gave my view of this latest piece by Conn in this thread last night, and at quite some length. It's possible he may be right, but if he is, it seems a senseless move from City's point of view. Yet if he's made any attempt to discern why City may be more confident of their case than he is, or what arguments we may put forward that distinguish the case from the precedent he refers to in his article, there's absolutely no sign of it. He may well have asked for a view from a sports law expert before writing, but the problem with that is that to get the right answers, you need to ask the right questions. I don't think I can be confident that he has.

More generally, Conn has shifted away from his usual subject matter when started out, which had a focus on exposing wrongdoing and sharp practices in the game. Then, he wrote for The Independent and produced two excellent books. In those days, I thought he was very good - and sometimes better than that. However, for reasons far beyond the tone, I loathe the specious, holier-than-thou role he's espoused over several years in The Guardian as a self-appointed conscience of modern football. Beyond some half-baked fan ownership nonsense, never does he put forward any constructive ideas for improvement amid his dreary whinges about the state of the modern game.

Moreover, there's no room for nuance. Almost every observation is refracted through the lens of Conn's own beliefs, often in a way that's simply sophomoric. Thus, we were treated to his eccentric observation in a Guardian column that, given the flaws in the PL's current model, "fan-owned Real Madrid" are an exemplar of moral rectitude in the modern game. We have his unabashed, uncritical adoration of a FC United, an outfit whose main asset - which translates into enormous media and political goodwill - is an identity they've leeched off one of the world's most famous clubs. And when he discusses why football was ethically superior in a bygone golden age (that never actually existed), he's egregious in the way he's blind (wilfully or otherwise) to the many drawbacks of the past and improvements in the modern age.

All these faults were fully evident in Richer Than God, which I'm glad I borrowed as opposed to shelling out my own cash on it. Like so many of his articles, the book merely served as an exercise in Conn trying to substantiate his simplistic philosophy by taking liberties with the facts and rational analysis. I find it all the more difficult to sympathise with that modus operandi given that I consider the philosophy in question to amount to little more than vapid, hand-wringing bullshit.

So sorry, those who profess admiration for him. You admire Conn if you want to. But put me down in the 'not a fan' camp.​

I wonder if he had an unhappy childhood. That's a sincere question. He clearly has a great need to belong. Probably deserves pity rather than scorn.

 

[BlueMoonz1977]

Its not only the 2014 settlement agreement they screwed us over.

Back in 2012 we were speaking to them regularly to gain reassurance about what we were doing to be able to take advantage of that Annex XI wages get-out. In told that not once but three times, we were assured that we were on the right path to be able to do that.

What the dodgy fuckers didn't tell us is that they were planning to change the way they calculated that while thing, which they did after it was too late.

So we've had two lots of assurances from them now, where they've got what they want and screwed us. Why would we take anything they said about "assurances" remotely seriously? We've been bitten twice now.

Exactly. Our owners have tried to be complicit with UEFA, it has been stated on occasions the one thing our owners pride themselves on is how business is conducted.

UEFA have shafted our owners more than enough times, and that has not gone down well this time after everything we have done at our end to be complicit on their terms.

If what played out in november with ceferin is true (which could be read as an extortion/blackmail attempt) then i am glad we told him where to go

We cannot allow it to continue, because if we did take another pinch then there is no assurance that UEFA and its cronies would not want another free hit in another 3-5 years

As some have posted. The relationship with UEFA is destroyed at best, what happens after this will be another story altogether

 

[marco]

not posted on this thread for for a few days ive just been soaking it up, i cant see anything other than CAS chucking this out, its bizare how UEFA are dealing with this,UEFA are like a little kid that cant have his own way so the only way is to tantrum,infact they are that unpredictable i wouldnt be surprised if the ban and fine was withdrawn before any CAS review

 

[dario2739]

Have a read of this regarding Yves Leterme and the PSG case back in 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/sports/psg-uefa-ffp.html

Seems Yves Leterme had the interests of Qatar at heart allowing PSG to get off the hook. Interesting that Bein Sports had at the time secured a multi-million dollar deal to become a UEFA partner

I think that this along with other information could effectively show UEFA for what they are if we decide to go after them

Yeah i've posted that previously – basically Qatar have UEFA and FIFA by the balls, and they rolled over and let them tickle their bellies... the corruptions is barely hidden, you only have to scratch the surface - unfortunately, Martin Samuel seems a lone voice in putting the truth across.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

A good article in the guardian of all places
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...wo-year-ban-may-be-seismic-not-least-for-uefa

This bit is good;
“
Ferran Soriano, in his 2011 book Goal: The Ball Doesn’t Go in By Chance. “Like all industries,” he wrote, “football also has a regulatory body … that defines the competition rules and monitors their compliance. However, with an enormous, unique difference, this regulator also competes in the football market with some very advantageous conditions … They compete with the clubs for the audience … They also compete for sponsors … They exercise their powers in very favourable conditions: they fix the calendar, the competition. A more normal situation would be for Uefa and Fifa to concentrate on doing what a bakers’ guild really does, which is to regulate and not to compete. But this is not possible.”

That sounds a lot like somebody who has been waiting for years to cut Uefa down to size. But Soriano does have a point. There is an inherent contradiction when the game’s regulator is also a financial competitor. And it is precisely that fact that is so dangerous for Uefa.
”