UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Radcliffe 1309]

Yesssss !!

 

[inchy14]

nope, its me..........

Now it is.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I wonder what he thinks about his own Independent being under "the influence of non-democratic states" seeing as it's Saudi and Russian owned.

as you mention it:

Bilal Ahmad: Those so called non democratic states are your employers too. Why dont you quit?
Whiney Little Miggy: No they're not.
Bilal Ahmad: Do you consider Russia a democratic country?
Avoidy Little Miggy: Russia don't own us

Wikipedia on the Independent:
Owners:
Alexander Lebedev - Russian
Evgeny Lebedev - Russian 41%
Sultan Muhammad Abuljadayel - Saudi
Justin Byam Shaw - British (I think) 26%

(%ages from BBC report a while ago)

 

[Centurions]

Stand aside,women coming through

Nice try ;)

 

[inchy14]

Maybe now.........anyway Fuck Uefa..........

 

[City_rabin]

Hope you don't mind but I just asked Rabin on Twitter the same questions. Ed Woodward, Edwin Van Der Sar and K-H Rumennigge are all on the ECA Executive Board.

Here it is :)

 

[razman]

When I started this thread all those years agoo..... FFS UEFA !!

 

[Norbiton]

Idioms, oxymorons and now we have our good friend the homonym.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Parisian]

hmmm....so many dramas going on at the minute

@Parisian

Not much drama for PSG.

Drama for Nasser and Qatar mostly. This is on theirs bids for WC and Athletics. I said here before i fully expect Qatar to have bribed people to win the bid. This is what happens for any international competition.

Have nothing to do with UEFA FFP though.

Saw this page earlier :



Lot of misinformation in it. Nasser is not and has never been a member of FFP chamber.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...al-khelaifi-elected-uefa-executive-committee/

Paris St Germain president Nasser Al-Khelaifi is set to join the Uefa executive committee as one of two club representatives.

The European Club Association (ECA) said the Qatari had been elected to replace Ivan Gazidis, the former Arsenal chief executive who has moved to Italy’s AC Milan. The other ECA seat is taken by Juventus president Andrea Agnelli.


Al-Khelaifi's election has to be ratified by the Uefa Congress at a meeting in Rome next week and comes with PSG under financial investigation by European football’s governing body. However the Uefa chamber which is conducting the investigation is independent and so there should not be any conflict of interest raised.

This means that if NAK has corrupted someone to be elected, it is not UEFA but the ECA (the clubs).


AP listing the reason of his indictment are not for his role in PSG and are related to FIFA.



And Nasser has been cleared of the charges of bribery contrary to what Manchster Xtra is saying.

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

If you insist:

Miggy (2 tweets)

The cases of City and Nasser el Khelaifi ultimately showcase the influence of non-democratic states in football. To quote City's own Simon Pearce in his own email. "We can do whatever we want." This is very much the attitude.

Was told by people involved that one of the principles behind the Neymar signing was to "short-squeeze" the market. Elevate fees and wages so much, because PSG knew basically only City and United could compete. This alone is why FFP is necessary. This is the mindset.

Who needs context when you can act like a chump?
Who needs a refresher in What FFP could do as opposed to what it does do, even allowing for his statement on Neymar being accurate.

Interesting theory from Delaney.

It bears no relation to reality, unfortunately - but then that shouldn't shock anyone familiar with his output.

Let's have a look at the current list of the top ten most expensive transfers in football - if Miguel's yarn stacks up, the top three names should read City, United and PSG, with the rest lagging way behind having been blown away by the outrageous extravagance of those three.

Erm.........wait a minute..........where are City?

OK - maybe I'm being too restrictive. The Top 20 then.

Erm........nope - still can't see City

Yep - you’d have to stretch your search out to the top 30 to incorporate our sole appearance in the list below - KDB at number 26.

Great theory Miguel - doesn't really bear up to even the most basic research though, does it?

But yeah - City are the problem here. Clearly our more measured, restrained, financially prudent competitors like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool, Juventus, Chelsea, Bayern, Inter and Arsenal (all of whom seem to able to compete perfectly well, and have easily eclipsed our highest transfer fee) need the extra support of FFP to thwart this cunning plan!

Perhaps - just maybe - this has got precisely nothing to do with City, and this story is just another tired example of Delaney's all too predictable agenda. Yet again.

The first rule of journalism - never let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh Miguel!

Pos. Player Clubs Year Fee
1 Neymar Barcelona - PSG 2017 €222m
2 Kylian Mbappe Monaco - PSG 2017 €145m (+€35m)
3 Joao Felix Benfica - Atletico Madrid 2019 €126m
4 Philippe Coutinho Liverpool - Barcelona 2018 €120m (+€40m)
5 Antoine Griezmann Atletico Madrid - Barcelona 2019 €120m
6 Ousmane Dembele Borussia Dortmund - Barcelona 2017 €105m (+€45m)
7 Paul Pogba Juventus - Manchester United 2016 €105m
8 Gareth Bale Tottenham - Real Madrid 2013 €100.8m
9 Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid - Juventus 2018 €100m
9 Eden Hazard Chelsea - Real Madrid 2019 €100m (+€40m)
11 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United - Real Madrid 2009 €94m
12 Gonzalo Higuain Napoli - Juventus 2016 €90m
13 Harry Maguire Leicester City - Manchester United 2019 €87.1m
14 Neymar Santos - Barcelona 2013 €86.2m
15 Romelu Lukaku Everton - Manchester United 2017 €84.8m
16 Virgil van Dijk Southampton - Liverpool 2018 €84.5m
17 Luis Suarez Liverpool - Barcelona 2014 €82.3m
18 James Rodriguez Monaco - Real Madrid 2014 €80m
18 Kepa Arrizabalaga Athletic Bilbao - Chelsea 2018 €80m
18 Lucas Hernandez Atletico Madrid - Bayern Munich 2019 €80m
18 Romelu Lukaku Manchester United - Inter 2019 €80m
22 Nicolas Pepe Lille - Arsenal 2019 €79m
23 Alvaro Morata Real Madrid - Chelsea 2017 €78.9m
24 Zinedine Zidane Juventus - Real Madrid 2001 €77.5m
25 Matthijs de Ligt Ajax - Juventus 2019 €75m (+€10.5m)
26 Kevin De Bruyne Wolfsburg - Manchester City 2015 €75m
27 Frenkie de Jong Ajax-Barcelona 2019 €75m
28 Angel Di Maria Real Madrid - Manchester United 2014 €74.6m
29 Alisson Becker Roma - Liverpool 2018 €73m
30 Luka Jovic Frankfurt - Real Madrid 2019 €70m

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

This is like the time everyone knew Pep's next club would be City, yet our enemies refused to believe or entertain it, insisting United was always his ambition.

It is only when he was officially unveiled, the horrible reality saw penny drop.

It will be the same with our Uefa battle, I sincerely believe that.

When this is all done, the sober reality when our evidence becomes public, will leave them all remembering again they underestimated our club.

 

[Gordyola]

Not much drama for PSG.

Drama for Nasser and Qatar mostly. This is on theirs bids for WC and Athletics. I said here before i fully expect Qatar to have bribed people to win the bid. This is what happens for any international competition.

Have nothing to do with UEFA FFP though.

Saw this page earlier :



Lot of misinformation in it. Nasser is not and has never been a member of FFP chamber.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...al-khelaifi-elected-uefa-executive-committee/

Paris St Germain president Nasser Al-Khelaifi is set to join the Uefa executive committee as one of two club representatives.

The European Club Association (ECA) said the Qatari had been elected to replace Ivan Gazidis, the former Arsenal chief executive who has moved to Italy’s AC Milan. The other ECA seat is taken by Juventus president Andrea Agnelli.


Al-Khelaifi's election has to be ratified by the Uefa Congress at a meeting in Rome next week and comes with PSG under financial investigation by European football’s governing body. However the Uefa chamber which is conducting the investigation is independent and so there should not be any conflict of interest raised.

This means that if NAK has corrupted someone to be elected, it is not UEFA but the ECA (the clubs).

Would point out the connection here https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/sports/psg-uefa-ffp.html

 

[Blue Mist]

Real Madrid have some brass neck trying to stick the boot into City. Did they not get the begging bowl out to Shiekh Mansour to assist with the financing of the redevelopment of the Bernabau? Hopefully they will get the equivalent of the Gene Kelly stand built instead.

yes and No, Madrid want to put a roof over the stadium and they went to people in Abu Dhabi for the money. The problem was the Madrid local council, for once, stood up to them and said that to simply roof it would make it too high in terms of local residents so they refused planning permission, the council insisted that seats and therefore capacity had to be removed to allow a roof at the same height. This caused long delays. Madrid then started getting shitty with us, Tebas etc, whether it was connected to the delays (as was reported) or to them trying to shit on us but AD pulled the plug. Madrid are still looking to put a roof on it but it may now be more of a B&Q shed roof than the Ally Pally type.

 

[No One Understands]

This clown is stealing our defense and using it for his own purpose. I don't remember ever reading anything about this until today. So not sure how there were any leaks unless they were never reported, which means there were never leaks. Am I missing something here?

It is common knowledge that for Qatar to have anything to do with the world cup, hosting or media rights, money must have changed hands. This is not ground breaking news.

FFP was expedited due to the actions of PSG, but that didn't matter since they had UEFA in their back pocket by the time the shit hit the fan. I have zero time for the thug/goon that runs PSG.

 

[Keeper!]

This clown is stealing our defense and using it for his own purpose. I don't remember ever reading anything about this until today. So not sure how there were any leaks unless they were never reported, which means there were never leaks. Am I missing something here?

It is common knowledge that for Qatar to have anything to do with the world cup, hosting or media rights, money must have changed hands. This is not ground breaking news.

FFP was expedited due to the actions of PSG, but that didn't matter since they had UEFA in their back pocket by the time the shit hit the fan. I have zero time for the thug/goon that runs PSG.

Don't think our owner and his nation are too keen either.

Hence why we will be happy to show the world the real UEFA.

 

[oakiecokie]

When I started this thread all those years agoo..... FFS UEFA !!

Yes you have a lot to answer too,mate. ;)

 

[Dirty Harry]

This is like the time everyone knew Pep's next club would be City, yet our enemies refused to believe or entertain it, insisting United was always his ambition.

It is only when he was officially unveiled, the horrible reality saw penny drop.

It will be the same with our Uefa battle, I sincerely believe that.

When this is all done, the sober reality when our evidence becomes public, will leave them all remembering again they underestimated our club.

And in the process, brought a few well dug in ticks to the surface too no doubt !

 

[Parisian]

Would point out the connection here https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/sports/psg-uefa-ffp.html

Adressed it here already.

I have not seen your reaction to that earlier post explaining all the points.

Keep in mind that you are here putting all your faith on that article from Tariq Panja while other reputable sources have reported other things.

Panja says that Leterme even decided to chose an higher value for the sponsorships than the club value. How do you explain that the QTA contract went from 100 to 58 then ? Why did all Qatari contracts got devalued by 37% if Leterme didn't contest PSG valuation ?

Wouldn't a fair reporting be that Leterme devalued those contracts by 37% but the portuguese judge wanted a more severe devaluation ?


Regarding the famous rule he said that has been flouted (a third auditing team should have been chosen), look at that :

Isn't it that UEFA actually followed their own rules in PSG case ?

Why after being asked to provide the document with the numbers he pretends to have, Tariq Panja cannot elaborate ?



The other sources are all talking about how
-PSG contracts have been devaluated (was proven right)
-UEFA FFP forcing PSG to terminating QTA in its form (was proven right)
-PSG having to balance the books after the contracts were devaluated by selling players and getting new sponsors (was proven right)

 

[Parisian]

Would point out the connection here https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/sports/psg-uefa-ffp.html

Adressed it here already.

The problem is, as evidenced by my posts above, companies contradict other companies over what is the fair value. And ofc, Der Spiegel in their reports, only take the lowest value given by one firm as the ultimate "true fair value".

Says Tariq Panja. The same guy who is saying your Etihad sponsor is worth 8 M€.

In reality, the sponsors have deen downvalued (again). And QTA has even been terminated. It wasn't allowed to stand.





According to L’Equipe journalist Etienne Moatti, UEFA and the club’s financial control body (ICFC) devalued these 5 contracts by 37% in total. In detail, the contract signed with QTA would bring 145 million euros per season to the club. A contract that the club itself values only 100M € in the figures presented to UEFA since 2014. After the new investigation recently conducted on the accounts of PSG, this contract would have been valued at 58 million euros annually , "A staggering difference of 42 million euros" writes the journalist. The other 4 partnerships have also been devalued, going from € 38 million to € 29 million. The total haircuts on contracts "made in Qatar" therefore amount to € 51 million, adds the daily. "Sollicited, the Parisian club does not dispute this amount that it must find so as not to be in the eye of the storm again from the start of next season.

Bolded part consistent with the first graphs.



https://www.lemonde.fr/football/art...n-de-cause-devant-le-tas_5438342_1616938.html
According to the FootballLeaks, PSG leaders in May 2018 directly spoke with those of UEFA, including its head of financial fair play, Andrea Traverso. The UEFA delegation then told PSG that the investigation was to be discontinued "for political reasons".

A secret amicable settlement has been proposed by the leaders of the European Confederation. But the investigating chamber of the ICFC refused this agreement and devalued the Qatari sponsors, pushing PSG to sell several players (Javier Pastore, Yuri Berchiche) to garner 60 million euros.

So, apparently, we did get approached like City by the leaders of UEFA but ICFC didn't agree. Bit like the reports saying Ceferin tried to do a deal with you but ICFC went with their investigation.

Nice read about Panja being asked to clarify the points in his article :

 

[Parisian]

Where does this belief come from exactly ?

From Le Monde :

But the CAS judgment does not remove all the threats weighing on Paris-Saint-Germain, which must at all costs increase its sponsorship revenues: it must indeed bear the burden of the salaries of Neymar and Mbappé, and compensate for the devaluation of its income by the ICFC.

(1) As of this year, according to a source close to the ICFC, all Qatari club sponsors are valued at 52 million euros - while PSG signed a 145 million agreement with the Qatar Tourism Authority. The partnership expires in June 2019 and will not be renewed, as decided by the ICCC’s investigative chamber.

(2) In 2020, adds this source, the PSG will not be able to record any income of a sponsor considered as a related party, that is to say a company linked to the Qatari State, owner of the club through its sovereign fund Qatar Sports Investments (QSI).

(3) In addition, if it does not make significant sales this summer, the Paris club will have to generate 150 million euros annually to be in balance. And this when it must make a cross on the sum of 10.5 million euros, provided by UEFA in the event of qualification for the quarters of the Champions League, and on additional receipts in terms of ticketing.

Given these devaluations, the PSG's forecast deficit was estimated at 124 million euros for the 2017-2018 season, while the maximum deficit authorized to comply with the FPF is 30 million euros over three seasons.

(4) According to a source close to the ICFC, Aleksander Ceferin can"be relieved by the CAS decision. Despite the apparent defeat of UEFA. " If the CAS had decided differently, the investigating chamber of the CFCB would no doubt have been pushed to sanction the PSG. The latter was then said to have been tempted to legally attack UEFA after having complied with the investigating chamber’s decision in June 2018.

So, exactly, what charges were dropped ?

(1) PSG Qataris contracts have been valued at 52 M from 2019. City UAE contracts are higher than that. UEFA even forced PSG to terminate QTA contract. PSG complied with their demands.
If UEFA ask City to terminate a contract and City oblige, will you say that coincidentally all charges were dropped ? Or would you say that City has cooperated ?

(2) PSG is forbidden from signing a contract from a related party. Seems like it was finally allowed as Qatar Airways has followed Emirates Airways as the carrier of the club. The price is in the standard of the deal with other european clubs linked with Qatar Airways. So, no problem with fair market value.

(3) PSG had to sell players to balance the books on top of registering new contracts (Nike, Accor, Rwanda, Replay, Renault, etc.) since the devaluations put PSG out of the break even requirement. Similar to what is happening with City being in break even deficit after devaluation of UAE contracts.

(4) Ceferin relieved because he was fearing PSG challenging UEFA and FFP if a sanction had been put. Isn't it exactly what is happening with City ?

The funny thing is you don't realize that when City will have a successful appeal, the very same argument you are applying here will be used to say that City cheated their way out of trouble.

Sorry for the multi post but can't post in one post more than 5 media links. Had to cut in three parts.