COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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It’s been the sport’s governing bodies who have ignored the government and cancelled games and events off their own back.

Lots of gigs still went ahead over the weekend. 21,000 at the Arena for Stereophonics
I know. The Bath half marathon went ahead yesterday. Utter madness.

Another "expert" on the TV this morning saying the current exponential rise is to be expected and that we saw that too in China and then numbers started to come down.

And WHEN did they start coming down eh Sherlock? Oh yes, it was after the stopped people milling around freely. It is calculated that had the Chinese brought in the lock down 2 weeks earlier, just 2 weeks, it would have reduced the infections and lives lost by 95%.

And yet we've been letting it rip for the last week or more. Madness absolute utter madness.
 
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Pardon my ignorance, but I would have thought the government policy of ‘herd immunity’ (infecting as many people as possible to develop a widespread immunity) would be more consistent with playing games with a packed crowd in attendance (not that I’m a supporter of what seems to me to be a daft and downright dangerous policy).
 
The government are to use best western hotels as itu beds with ventilators in them, jcb will be making the ventilators senior staff received a memo yesterday
Have they confirmed they are able to do it? Last I read was about them wanting to help but it being unlikely anyone can do much. There’s no agreed blueprint and getting the components will take many weeks potentially months. Has there been an update to that?
 
Sharston? I was there at 10:00 yesterday and people were arguing with each other. They have a ‘four packs of toilet roll’ policy and some daft woman ran in and out about nine packs in her trolley, even the staff were moaning at her.

i was in Leeds mate. It was pretty calm tbf and I think they had restocked during the afternoon. I’d also popped into Waitrose for my free paper and the woman on the checkout said it had been mental earlier. Sometimes it’s better not to be the early worm lol. Got home to listen to CAS vs Saints in the radio.
 
I know, I didn't mean it in a "you'll be fine" kind of way, I think we all need to just be a little more circumspect if we can be, at least on this thread, and try and use it as a support network for each other, particularly as going forward most of us may be ill, some of us very, and many of us may end up alone for extended period of times.

I can't account for stupid people, all we can do is rally round as many sensible people as possible and support each other to do the sensible things and help people in doubt make the best decision they can in extremely tough situations. We need to look after our own, the best we can.

19_CATERS_LIONS_VS_ELEPHANTS_12-1024x683.jpg
Hey speak for yourself, I'm not that fat!
 
I’m in the motor trade and my boss has decided we’re done for now, pay me for a month and take a months holiday, so technically upto two months off paid. Might be worth others in finance difficulties to use holidays and receive pay.
 
Daily briefings are now be given by No 10.
In the first one today the Government needs to explain the justification for it's 'controlled herd immunity' programme, why it is better than the lockdown measures adopted in other countries and the risks.
Not hopeful but let's see.
 
I believe it to be rubbish too. The longer they leave social distancing, the longer this is going to take. This is exponential growth and decay, where the change in the amount of virus we have dX is directly proportional to the amount of virus we have, X, at time t. It's a common process in the natural world and those curves and models that we keep seeing are models of exponential growth and decay. The one thing everyone knows about exponential growth and decay is that it's steep and precipitous, and we saw that in Wuhan.

We've been told that due to the R0 value of the virus, something that is unique to each virus, this one doubles every 4 days, and you see that in most countries. The only thing that differs between most countries is the time - it's a horizontal shift of the curve, hence we are 2-3 weeks behind Italy.

It's now the job of each country to smash the growth rate of the virus by interfering with the transmission. That can be done by social distancing (Wuhan) or by blanket testing and information technology (South Korea), sadly a lot of western health administrator don't believe you can stop it, and you can only control it, hence no Western nation has seriously implemented a testing program. It's a complere disgrace that we do not have easy access to tests. Not even Drs and nurses can get ready access to tests for themselves when they are ill (I know this).

We're now at 10,000 cases (so we are told??). That will be 20,000 in 4 days, then 40,000, 80,000, 160,000 is nothing is done, but if society shuts down and people do this properly, as happened in Wuhan, the virus will precipitously collapse in a relatively short period. It does depend on what we do though. That is why the government was criticised by scientists. We should be learning from other societies and their approaches and not ignoring them. Good science adapts models to the real world not dogma.

There are two models which completely decimated the virus: Wuhan (social control) and South Korea (intelligent targeted testing on a massive scale combined with anti-virals). We should be learning from these models, not ignoring them.

When I see completely empty squares and cities I am hugely encouraged because how can a virus grow in that environment? What worries me though is that what you don't see is where the people have gone. They are crammed tightly together in houses. Our families will infect each other, but not if it's done early enough. That's why it's very important that social distancing is done very quickly.

Everything that the British government is doing comes from the top of the medical profession and it you can see that it is informed by the idea of building up immunity i.e. they do not want to stop the infection in its tracks because they don't believe it is possible. The thing is it's been shown that you can do this. I hope Boris Johnson and his government get panicked by reality as the Germans, French, Spanish, and Italians have been, and react very quickly. If they do it slowly and wait weeks (as suggested - then they are deliberately trying to infect the healthy - whilst isolating the old and immune-compromised). They say the herd immunity was a PR blunder and they don't believe it, but everything they do and have done suggests they do actually believe this. Hopefully politicians will be shocked by reality and move fast now.

I am completely shocked that advanced Western nations with computers, lots of trained people, and testing kits did not follow the South Korea model. It was shown to work.
It's a question of judgement, the UK argues that the South Korean response, after initial success in restricting the spread of the virus, will allow the epidemic to continue for a much longer period because the majority of the population will not gain immunity that infection will bring. Our response is to allow the virus to run its course while protecting vulnerable groups.
 
One of the senior NHS Drs was just on Sky, a letter has now gone from the the NHS staff asking the government to take urgent action now regarding isolation and closures. Basically saying its fuckin madness what they are doing.
 
I believe it to be rubbish too. The longer they leave social distancing, the longer this is going to take. This is exponential growth and decay, where the change in the amount of virus we have dX is directly proportional to the amount of virus we have, X, at time t. It's a common process in the natural world and those curves and models that we keep seeing are models of exponential growth and decay. The one thing everyone knows about exponential growth and decay is that it's steep and precipitous, and we saw that in Wuhan.

We've been told that due to the R0 value of the virus, something that is unique to each virus, this one doubles every 4 days, and you see that in most countries. The only thing that differs between most countries is the time - it's a horizontal shift of the curve, hence we are 2-3 weeks behind Italy.

It's now the job of each country to smash the growth rate of the virus by interfering with the transmission. That can be done by social distancing (Wuhan) or by blanket testing and information technology (South Korea), sadly a lot of western health administrator don't believe you can stop it, and you can only control it, hence no Western nation has seriously implemented a testing program. It's a complere disgrace that we do not have easy access to tests. Not even Drs and nurses can get ready access to tests for themselves when they are ill (I know this).

We're now at 10,000 cases (so we are told??). That will be 20,000 in 4 days, then 40,000, 80,000, 160,000 is nothing is done, but if society shuts down and people do this properly, as happened in Wuhan, the virus will precipitously collapse in a relatively short period. It does depend on what we do though. That is why the government was criticised by scientists. We should be learning from other societies and their approaches and not ignoring them. Good science adapts models to the real world not dogma.

There are two models which completely decimated the virus: Wuhan (social control) and South Korea (intelligent targeted testing on a massive scale combined with anti-virals). We should be learning from these models, not ignoring them.

When I see completely empty squares and cities I am hugely encouraged because how can a virus grow in that environment? What worries me though is that what you don't see is where the people have gone. They are crammed tightly together in houses. Our families will infect each other, but not if it's done early enough. That's why it's very important that social distancing is done very quickly.

Everything that the British government is doing comes from the top of the medical profession and it you can see that it is informed by the idea of building up immunity i.e. they do not want to stop the infection in its tracks because they don't believe it is possible. The thing is it's been shown that you can do this. I hope Boris Johnson and his government get panicked by reality as the Germans, French, Spanish, and Italians have been, and react very quickly. If they do it slowly and wait weeks (as suggested - then they are deliberately trying to infect the healthy - whilst isolating the old and immune-compromised). They say the herd immunity was a PR blunder and they don't believe it, but everything they do and have done suggests they do actually believe this. Hopefully politicians will be shocked by reality and move fast now.

I am completely shocked that advanced Western nations with computers, lots of trained people, and testing kits did not follow the South Korea model. It was shown to work.
Top post.

I agree with your point about people in their own homes infecting others. But as it stands, the number of infected households is still relatively small. We can guess there's probably 20,000 infected now (based on up to 10,000 on Thursday). There's 25m homes in the UK.
 
I suppose Boris himself is wanting to contract the virus along with all of his family to ensure they gain immunity? I highly doubt it, I’m sure they’re all tucked away safe and sound. It is why our trusted leader has been nowhere in sight.
The survival instinct is very strong in all of us but the creation of antibodies is the only secure protection.
 
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was visiting the mother in law at hospital yesterday as we were waiting for a lift 2 nurses fully masked were wheeling a women in a bed who was coughing her guts up and trying to rip her mask off,the nurse was telling her she had to keep it on.as the lift door opened she wheeled her in and said to us you don't want to be coming in here with us,actually seeing it with my own eyes was scary as fuck my wife whos been burying her head in the sand has suddenly woken up to how serious it really is
This lot and airlines wanting billions in bailouts - I'd much rather see us help/safeguard/secure the old, the frail, the poor and the homeless first - these lot can join the back of the queue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51896169
Seriously? Without a bailout they'll go bust and hand back franchises anyway.
 
Top post.

I agree with your point about people in their own homes infecting others. But as it stands, the number of infected households is still relatively small. We can guess there's probably 20,000 infected now (based on up to 10,000 on Thursday). There's 25m homes in the UK.
That's known infections.
 
“We are not cancelling mass gatherings for public health reasons, it is to free up resources”

Do they actually expect people to believe this? They are doing it because they have been proven wrong and are making a panicked u-turn. It is everything to do with public health and slowing the spread. Just be honest with us for god’s sake.
 
I read this last night, paints a worse picture than what I have read so far - wondering if this happening in other areas as well

Below is summary from a twitter series of posts from a physician in Philadelphia:

I’ve been in touch with an intensivist at a Seattle hospital with one of the highest numbers of COVID-19 admissions in the US. They’ve been too exhausted to post much themselves, so I am conveying some of what I’ve been told, which is… eye-opening. To say the least. /1

The Seattle situation isn’t quite at Lombardy levels yet… but it’s getting there. First of all regarding the clinicians. None are sleeping more than a couple hrs a night. Everyone is utterly exhausted. My colleague has seen so many people die as to have become totally numb. /2

It’s also nearing Status Lombardosus with regard to resources. They haven’t run out of ventilators (yet), but every single ICU bed in Seattle metro is full. And the onslaught shows no signs of stopping. They’ve run out of other things as well. /3

My colleague saw a patient who had a half-full syringe left attached to her IV line. The syringe had an antibiotic. First thought was that this was some gross nursing error. It turned out not to be a mistake at all, but rather an accomodation to dire circumstances. /4

It was a drug that was supposed to be infused over hours. But there were no IV pumps available. So the nurse had given some of it, left the syringe attached, and planned to come by to give more a little later, and then finish it. /5

They are also at the point of having to ration some kinds of care. For the most severely ill patients, there’s a machine called ECMO — extracorporeal membrane oxygenation — which is basically like an external lung that oxygenates blood when the patient’s lungs won’t work. /6

Seattle has 12 machines, which is less than what’s needed. So a central committee there is deciding: you can’t go on ECMO if you're >40 yrs old, if you have another organ system failing, or… incredibly… if your BMI is>25. Turns out these are all major poor prognostic signs. /7

(Note: that doesn’t mean that anybody with a BMI >25 is in trouble if they get COVID. Just that if you’re critically ill from it, that is apparently a poor prognostic marker. Not sure anybody has a clear idea why.) /8

Meanwhile the combo of exhausted health care workers & no open ICU beds has made a very hazardous health situation for the entire region. If you have a stroke, a heart attack, etc., it will be hard to get the best care. There are patients in ERs for hours waiting for ICU beds. /9

My colleague told me something else remarkable: COVID patients are not dying of lung disease. This seems to be a very distinct syndrome, and in severe cases the pneumonia leads to ARDS, a condition in which the lungs leak fluid & the patient can’t breathe w/out a ventilator. /10

But apparently the ARDS is not too severe, and they can manage people through that part of it. Instead, after several days, the virus suddenly attacks the heart, causing it to precipitously fail. The myocarditis phase is savage and kills people within a day or two. /11

My colleague has seen a number of cases in which multiple family members were in the hospital and critically ill. Maybe this means there’s some genetic predisposition, but it’s probably too soon to say. /12


My sister is a cardiologist in SF and remarked last night that they have experienced a spike in myocarditis case but had not yet made a link to corona
 
It's a question of judgement, the UK argues that the South Korean response, after initial success in restricting the spread of the virus, will allow the epidemic to continue for a much longer period because the majority of the population will not gain immunity that infection will bring. Our response is to allow the virus to run its course while protecting vulnerable groups.
Flawed thinking.

We are also accepting that our measures will have to continue for a long long time. How can 40m get infected over anything other than 1year+ without overwhelming the NHS?. Do the maths

So both nations will have to continue with their measures only we will have many more dead than they will. So which policies are the correct ones?

The Asian nations are much more in tune with what needs to be done because of their previous experiences with SARS and other viruses. Monitoring and testing, testing, testing, testing.

But we in the UK - with no experience - apparently know best. No point in widespread testing apparently.
 
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