Another new Brexit thread

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stonerblue said:
And if you predict wrongly?
Either way we're still divided from Europe. The youth of this country will not have the ability to 'get on their bikes' (remember that one?) to find work, adventure or a future in a wider world.
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But - and on this I am certain - the youth of this country, especially future generations, will appreciate from their schooling, that in 2016 the UK took a significant decision that eventually led to it fully leaving the EU. They will learn that was the point at which the UK avoided the majority of the impact of the subsequent implosion of the EU and started its development into a prosperous and independent nation.

Of course the youth will be able to find work, adventure or a future in a wider world - they were able to before we joined the EU and unless the EU carries on with some punishment agenda......

I know that you don't agree - but...…...
 
blueinsa said:
Only the case if you simply can not accept a democratic decision the country took and move on mate.
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To be fair, people have every right to continue to oppose as much as they do support. That's why we have the concept of an official opposition in our politics.
 
stonerblue said:
And this, in a nutshell, is the future folks. Divided from Europe and dividing the country.
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We've been "divided" from Europe politically since the 15th century. We weren't the ones who recently tried to make British/European affairs political again. We said no, we meant it. We were ignored, so we decided to leave.

When the EuroParl is disbanded, MEP's are a distant memory, and the EU budget consigned to history, some of us might consider rejoining. Until then, the answer remains no.
 
mcfc1632 said:
But only for a limited amount of time.

As events unfold and, so long as the Brexit journey is completed and the truth is allowed to be public, then I predict a good number of the public that still think we should Remain will have the character to express their thanks and appreciation to those that had the resolve.
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This is bonkers. Another post we will have to circle back to in 6 months time when the ugly mess starts to hit people in real terms...

At best we will get a very limited deal that is designed to minimise operational problems at ports/borders, it will most likely be temporary and include regulatory alignment therefore an extension by another name. We are a million miles away from any good outcome, just as the prospect of a solution to the NI/ROI border has been abandoned to the reality the same will apply to the EU trade deal, there will a similar outcome i.e. no good long-term deal.
 
meltonblue said:
To be fair, people have every right to continue to oppose as much as they do support. That's why we have the concept of an official opposition in our politics.
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They do but then they accept they are the reason for the division that exists imo.
 
blueinsa said:
They do but then they accept they are the reason for the division that exists imo.
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Division done properly is an essential part of democracy and always will and should exist. I agree in the sentiment there's a healthy way to do it though!
 
mcfc1632 said:
@BobKowalski

So you - it seems to me - are agreeing with all the actions that are being undertaken.

Re US - we have embarked on the initial stages of a dialogue. That does not commit us to 'doing anything' and if the parameters that emerge are wholly unsatisfactory - then we can just "....do absolute nothing." and continue with "Existing arrangements...." which you describe as being fine.

Re Japan - this is even more the case - are considering embarking on the initial stages of a dialogue. That does not commit us to 'doing anything' and if the parameters that emerge are wholly unsatisfactory - then we can just "....do absolute nothing." and continue with "Existing arrangements...." which you describe as being fine.

Re China - we are not currently (openly) doing anything - and the strategies/plans we have for any future developments will be informed by the scope of the dialogues with the US. They can demand what they like - we can make our own decisions.​

Re the EU - the current policy would appear to be spot-on. We have set out the parameters which are essential for the UK and we should just wait to see if they are willing to accommodate or not.

Meanwhile, we should/can not simply do absolutely nothing as we have to make planning/preparations should - the EU not budge. This we should be doing with urgency and a small/indirect part of that would be commencing/preparing for dialogue with other partners.

It all makes sense.

In such matters you prioritise the 'prejudicial issues' - and right at the top of that list must be seen continued tie-in to the EU with regard to contributions and regulations.

Once the government has made this determination - which it seems it has - the rest - as difficult and sometimes likely unpalatable, as aspects might be follows.

So in this one area - congratulations to the government. I currently regard it to be a demonstration of resolve - I hope it is sustained.

That you say:

"We don’t have any resolve. What we have is no bloody clue...." for me just likely reflects your frustrations/irritations that the government is not being diverted to conform to the EU's demands.

That is understandable from 'your end of the telescope' - from mine I am taking ever-greater levels of encouragement.
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No. I am saying we don’t have a bloody clue because we are in the middle of a pandemic, which we in the process of handling badly, and deluding ourselves that this time if we keep ‘our resolve’ 27 other countries will crumble like a soggy biscuit.

It’s like the beginnings of our response to the pandemic. First we ignore it, then we refuse to learn from other countries and now that we have more deaths and no capacity to test and trace we dropped the international death comparison at the press conference and are now pretending that anything below 500,000 deaths is a result.

if you think this ship of retards are going to do anything but sleepwalk into a Brexit fuck up to go alongside it’s pandemic fuck up then you’re an idiot.
 
mcfc1632 said:
@BobKowalski

So you - it seems to me - are agreeing with all the actions that are being undertaken.

Re US - we have embarked on the initial stages of a dialogue. That does not commit us to 'doing anything' and if the parameters that emerge are wholly unsatisfactory - then we can just "....do absolute nothing." and continue with "Existing arrangements...." which you describe as being fine.

Re Japan - this is even more the case - are considering embarking on the initial stages of a dialogue. That does not commit us to 'doing anything' and if the parameters that emerge are wholly unsatisfactory - then we can just "....do absolute nothing." and continue with "Existing arrangements...." which you describe as being fine.

Re China - we are not currently (openly) doing anything - and the strategies/plans we have for any future developments will be informed by the scope of the dialogues with the US. They can demand what they like - we can make our own decisions.​

Re the EU - the current policy would appear to be spot-on. We have set out the parameters which are essential for the UK and we should just wait to see if they are willing to accommodate or not.

Meanwhile, we should/can not simply do absolutely nothing as we have to make planning/preparations should - the EU not budge. This we should be doing with urgency and a small/indirect part of that would be commencing/preparing for dialogue with other partners.

It all makes sense.

In such matters you prioritise the 'prejudicial issues' - and right at the top of that list must be seen continued tie-in to the EU with regard to contributions and regulations.

Once the government has made this determination - which it seems it has - the rest - as difficult and sometimes likely unpalatable, as aspects might be follows.

So in this one area - congratulations to the government. I currently regard it to be a demonstration of resolve - I hope it is sustained.

That you say:

"We don’t have any resolve. What we have is no bloody clue...." for me just likely reflects your frustrations/irritations that the government is not being diverted to conform to the EU's demands.

That is understandable from 'your end of the telescope' - from mine I am taking ever-greater levels of encouragement.
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"we have embarked on the initial stages of a dialogue"

What happened to all those deals ready to sign the day we left? (I know you'll say you never said that, but that's how Leave won, with a stream of lies.)
 
Gaudion M said:
This is bonkers. Another post we will have to circle back to in 6 months time when the ugly mess starts to hit people in real terms...

At best we will get a very limited deal that is designed to minimise operational problems at ports/borders, it will most likely be temporary and include regulatory alignment therefore an extension by another name. We are a million miles away from any good outcome, just as the prospect of a solution to the NI/ROI border has been abandoned to the reality the same will apply to the EU trade deal, there will a similar outcome i.e. no good long-term deal.
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It has been previously evidenced that you have a track-record of being wholly wrong on this topic.

No matter how you choose to speak as if what you say is 'irrefutable' - your track record does you no favours.

FWIW - being clear of the EU controls - should that be the outcome - and not matter what cost that may have in not achieving a trade deal would be of itself an excellent result.
 
BobKowalski said:
No. I am saying we don’t have a bloody clue because we are in the middle of a pandemic, which we in the process of handling badly, and deluding ourselves that this time if we keep ‘our resolve’ 27 other countries will crumble like a soggy biscuit.

It’s like the beginnings of our response to the pandemic. First we ignore it, then we refuse to learn from other countries and now that we have more deaths and no capacity to test and trace we dropped the international death comparison at the press conference and are now pretending that anything below 500,000 deaths is a result.

if you think this ship of retards are going to do anything but sleepwalk into a Brexit fuck up to go alongside it’s pandemic fuck up then you’re an idiot.
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This is the part where you - and others - just get it repeatedly wrong...…...

"......deluding ourselves that this time if we keep ‘our resolve’ 27 other countries will crumble like a soggy biscuit."

There is no need for the EU to fold - they can and should do what is best for them - as should the UK.

It takes 2 to make an agreement - if the EU cannot accommodate our conditions then that is fine - they should not 'fold' - we will just not reach an agreement - really simples.

One of our aspirations should be to achieve a TA if possible - but that is such a 2nd order issue when considered alongside the need to become fully independent - meaning getting clear of any and all EU regulations and other controls over UK policies and strategies.

Once you get your head around that simple fact then the rest becomes obvious - I am not sure you can - given that little tantrum.

Once/if you can gain that level of understanding then it follows that whilst achieving a TA is desirable - it is no way essential and certainly not mandatory. It should be done only if it is clearly beneficial and does not compromise the far more important primary objectives

Simples really - and therefore, once you have understood, it becomes obvious that the UK's actions with regard to the US, Japan and the EU appear to be spot on.
 
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Lots of if's and but's in there, non of which will alter the fact that we as a country and as people will still be divided.
As for the eu 'punishment' agenda, it was England - or to be more exact half of it- that wanted out. We are the ones who have put up the barricades.
Why would any other eu member now turn round and allow English people un-fettered access to work or education in their countries?

for @mcfc1632
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
We've been "divided" from Europe politically since the 15th century. We weren't the ones who recently tried to make British/European affairs political again. We said no, we meant it. We were ignored, so we decided to leave.

When the EuroParl is disbanded, MEP's are a distant memory, and the EU budget consigned to history, some of us might consider rejoining. Until then, the answer remains no.
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Your first sentence then begs the question; why bother leaving if we've been divided so long?
 
stonerblue said:
Lots of if's and but's in there, non of which will alter the fact that we as a country and as people will still be divided.
As for the eu 'punishment' agenda, it was England - or to be more exact half of it- that wanted out. We are the ones who have put up the barricades.
Why would any other eu member now turn round and allow English people un-fettered access to work or education in their countries?

for @mcfc1632
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I don't know your age - but there was no problem working in the majority of countries that make up the EU before we joined the EEC - I worked in Ireland and Holland during that time - so why should there be now?

Many more EU citizens live in the UK than UK citizens live in the EU and I hope many more will be attracted to come here

I do think that you are worrying non-existent bogeymen
 
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