Another new Brexit thread

[hgblue]

It didn’t. Even the UK acknowledge it is asking for ‘novel arrangements in specific areas’. Please do try and keep up.

You sound affronted that the UK is asking for things it wants in the process of negotiations?

 

[BobKowalski]

More contradiction of yourself - quite amusing TBH

Fact one. Italy is one of the biggest supporters of the recovery package as it is one of the biggest recipients.

Fact two. To change the EU requires the agreement of its member nations.

This is like explaining math to cats.

 

[BobKowalski]

You sound affronted that the UK is asking for things it wants in the process of negotiations?

No but hold that thought and take it forward. Why are we asking for these things?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

You sound affronted that the UK is asking for things it wants in the process of negotiations?

Its asking for things it knows the Eu wont or cant give because if it did there would be no point in Eu membership ......... the UK is heading for no deal ... Get your head round it ... good luck

 

[mexico1970]

And where is this ‘EU’ based? I’ll help you out. The clue is in the fucking name.

The EU isn't a continent bud, it's a trading bloc. We're not leaving Europe we are leaving a bunch of countries who want to buy and sell stuff.

 

[hgblue]

No but hold that thought and take it forward. Why are we asking for these things?

Because we are no longer the UK ant frightened of being crushed by the almighty EU?

 

[joe123]

The EU isn't a continent bud, it's a trading bloc. We're not leaving Europe we are leaving a bunch of countries who want to buy and sell stuff.

Just because it's the most powerful trading bloc shouldn't overshadow the fact it's also based on security and stability as much as economics.

 

[mexico1970]

Just because it's the most powerful trading bloc shouldn't overshadow the fact it's also based on security and stability as much as economics.

It's still a trading bloc it isn't and never has been a continent, which was my point.

 

[joe123]

It's still a trading bloc it isn't and never has been a continent, which was my point.

ha, well that is irrefutable.

 

[mexico1970]

ha, well that is irrefutable.

It was the only point I was making bud ;)

 

[Vic]

Fact one. Italy is one of the biggest supporters of the recovery package as it is one of the biggest recipients.

Fact two. To change the EU requires the agreement of its member nations.

This is like explaining math to cats.

You mean like....

 

[Vic]

The EU isn't a continent bud, it's a trading bloc. We're not leaving Europe we are leaving a bunch of countries who want to buy and sell stuff.

Good job we don't want to buy and sell stuff then.

 

[Vic]

So you are really admitting that the EU will use this crisis to advance federalism and allow it to dictate acceptance by the sovereign nations

You have actually contradicted yourself several times today

The sovereign nations will dictate acceptance of the advance of federalism. Or they won't. They all get a vote.

 

[Metal Biker]

You know very well the the leave campaigns sold brexit on the basis there would be a trade deal. The tory manifesto sold the idea of a trade deal. The problem is that at every step is that it was pointed out the terms suggested where never going to be agreed. The cake argument of 2016 all over again. It was pointed out that these terms would not be agreeable and the actual outcome would be very damaging (i.e. No Deal), this was dismissed as 'Project Fear'.

You can not rewrite this history. We all know exactly what was said and by whom. We all knew it was BS from day 1.

We are now approaching the point where reality hits home. And the shit hits the fan.

Oh christ, the sodding leave campaign... nobody cares what they said except those who voted remain!

It's like Groundhog day on here.

 

[Vic]

You sound affronted that the UK is asking for things it wants in the process of negotiations?

Bob wondered why we were asking for these things.

I'm guessing the answer he expected (but that obviously no Leaver wants to admit) is that we are asking for the things we had because they are good things to have. It's like you had a cake, decided you didn't want it, then had to negotiate to get it back (but the guy who now has it wants some of your fish).

 

[Saddleworth2]

Just read that again....

It is absolutely riddled with something that I need to find the right word or term for...

Naivety - yes - but not just that

Lack of reality - yes - but not just that

Lack of understanding - yes - but not just that

Lack of research and objectivity - yes - but not just that

Etc. I will give it some thought

I for one look forward to your evidence and fact based response.

We both agree that The crisis will force increased integration from a political and fiscal basis. @BobKowalski has widened that to include Health and Defence and I wouldn’t disagree with that. The only disagreement between the two of you that I can see is that you believe that this urgent push for integration that will come out the back of the crisis will most likely fracture the EU whilst Bob believes (I think) that it probably won’t. Both seem reasonable positions don’t they?
His description of US/U.K. trade relations is depressing but certainly not out with the bounds of possibility. For me, both of you have well articulated positions that go way beyond the normal we won/lost. It would be great if this particular discussion could be concluded without rancour or animosity.

 

[west didsblue]

Because we are no longer the UK ant frightened of being crushed by the almighty EU?

We won’t be the UK for too much longer with Johnson in charge. At this rate he’ll be PM of just England by the next election.

 

[Vic]

Parliament dictates how the UK's EU Trade Deal negotiations will concluded, and it is currently dominated, after a recent national General Election, by MP's who are in favour of leaving the EU with a deal, ahead of those MP's who do not wish to leave at all.

Since England, Scotland, Wales and to some extent Northern Ireland are combined and represented at Westminster and the House of Commons, i'd say that this nation, by the result of people having voted in favour majorily for leave supporting MP's, that your little "slight" that Scotland, NI and Wales (who also voted in favour of leaving... yet people like you always forget that and make this a "England vs ROUK" issue) is absolute bollocks.

You must have missed the entire point about what the GE was meant to resolve (hint: it wasn't free broadband) It is going to be no deal, we are going to sever all ties with the EU, and the EU will have to shoulder a lot of the blame for trying to turn the trade negotiations into an exercise to punish a former member to ensure other members don't have the same idea. Best you start preparing for it.

Parliament has no say in it now.

And how do you reckon people "voted in favour majorily for leave supporting MP's"? Majorly anyway, but you all know most votes were cast for candidates of parties that wanted to Remain or at least have another referendum. It was the English in Wales that swung the vote there. Oh wait - I thought you didn't want to go back to 2016...

 

[mexico1970]

Good job we don't want to buy and sell stuff then.

We do want to buy and sell stuff though, but we don't want to be in a political union because we want to sell some Holland pies to Belgium.

 

[west didsblue]

Oh christ, the sodding leave campaign... nobody cares what they said except those who voted remain!

It's like Groundhog day on here.

That’s quite an astonishing admission.

You voted to lower the Union Jack in Brussels and Strasbourg and that’s it.