Largely agree, but I have a different view of when and where the home straight is entered.
If we had left with a deal like May was putting in place - we have never left
If we have left but the accept the controls that the EU is seeking to 'impose' - we have only left to be enter a vassal state - I know that people do not like the use of that term but I feel it is apt.
If that occurs - and referring to my herd analogy from earlier - and as the EU will be able to ensure that an independent UK cannot flourish, the EU can be confident of a future vote to re-join - on their terms and that it will only be a matter of time before a vote is taken
That’s fair enough, I’ve always maintained that I’m pro European but anti EU, and despite what the likes of BK may say the two things are not mutually exclusive. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the EU doesn’t survive and if that happens and it is replaced with a European Community of nation states, I could see myself voting to be a part of that.
You will note the several comments to you and other posters that display his self-appointed guru status, along with his need, presumably because his credibility has suffered severe erosion recently, to insult and demean, e.g.By misrepresenting what people say, incorrectly inventing arguments others haven't made and arguing from that position?
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Again I regret to inform you that your crippling lack of knowledge is proving to be a hindrance when posting.
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Welcome to the real world. Are you guys ready because judging by some of the posts on here the ignorance is truly astonishing.
……….. You should try reading the UK proposal document. You might learn something. Or you can continue posting ill-informed nonsense. It’s your choice.
@Saddleworth2 - just wondering if you are gaining any insights from the POV of balance - that is just this morning. Perhaps yesterday you should have quoted Bob and referred to me?.........….also correcting your errors. Honestly I should get paid the amount of teaching I do on here.
First off. The EU haven’t asked for an extension. Their calculation is that the time pressure will produce UK concessions as they did in the Withdrawal Agreement.
Seriously you couldn’t make it up. The EU is made up of 27 sovereign nation states.
Seriously you couldn’t make it up. The EU is made up of 27 sovereign nation states.
It's like a desperation to be seen as "the reference point" on anything EU related. Sadly, the only impression he gives off when he rants about people being wrong or "ignorant" on the EU is...You will note the several comments to you and other posters that display his self-appointed guru status, along with his need, presumably because his credibility has suffer severe erosion, to insult and demean, e.g.
@Saddleworth2 - just wondering if you are gaining any insights from the POV of balance - that is just this morning. Perhaps yesterday you should have quoted Bob and referred to me?
and @Mëtal Bikër this all after Bob's initial post this morning which was riddled with disingenuousness:
As I said - when you spot the technique it all becomes quite obvious - start of with a 'somewhat technically correct' statement - that the EU has not forma;;y asked for an extension..... and then use that to build a load of fatuous bollocks around
The reality - easily proven is that:
The reality is indeed that the EU has not 'formally' asked for an extension - but the extent of their lobbying and briefing is getting quite close to them begging for one;-)
Replace "not listened to" with "ignored". :)You’ve not listened to anything that’s been said for 4 years. I give up.
You dont get it do you. I know more about the real world and how things happen than you thats for certain. You're best staying in your little world of doom and denial.
As I said - when you spot the technique it all becomes quite obvious - start of with a 'somewhat technically correct' statement - that the EU has not formally asked for an extension..... and then use that to build a load of nonsense around
You’ve not listened to anything that’s been said for 4 years. I give up.
An egotist like yourself, would. :)I do love the phrase ‘somewhat technically correct statement’. Otherwise better known as ‘correct’.
As should any democracy, I was also pointing out that the difference between us joining the EEC in '73 and the current EU and what it's become is like chalk and cheese. Had the EU admitted it was beginning to go too far, agreed that a major reform to it's purpose and future existance needed to be addressed, placing more emphasis on the importance of sovereign governments and less on the Euro Parliament, i'd have been more inclined to continue membership.
For now though, the aspect of trade and business should be our only relationship with the EU and the rest of Europe, IMO, with emphasis placed on co-operation and not an integration of politics. That for me is what killed any association I wanted with the EU.
It certainly would be a hard sell, that's for sure..It will be a much harder sell, though to rejoin, considering the opinions of the British Public on the bloc.
Joining the EEC had some positive arguments to support it. Joining this current EU and it's excessive demands...?
Those 27 sovereign nations will in time become 27 federal states. That is what the EU wants, it's not what it's members want, but those making decisions at sovereign levels are being replaced with EU sycophants who do, regardless of what the electorate of those nations want.
I was (still am) an advocate of joining the EFTA as for me it resembles a near perfect European relationship. I wouldn't even be against a Confederal Europe, so long as there was no £500 million "meeting house" filled with pointless MEP's, but that representatives of each member nations elected Government went to each sovereign centre of politics i.e. Westminster, Holyrood, Bundestag, Palais Bourbon etc. to discuss issues related to trade, with no member seemingly more dominant over another.I can understand that. The financial crisis brought closer integration and I can only see the looming economic crisis, which will be enormously painful for everyone, accelerating and intensifying that. Some will view that as a narrow escape, others rue it as a missed opportunity, but as you say it's important for us all to be neighbourly.
Sorry - I disagree - although I do not have an issue of envisaging an independent UKYou do need to try and envisage how an independent U.K. will look in the future. You cannot say “I don’t like the look of all that integration” without having a scenario in your head to compare it with. After all it may well not be an independent U.K. in 5 years time but an independent England.
Er, are we suddenly back to discussing brexit again? So the previous interactions were... pointless?And this sadly is where you go wrong. The 27 nation states may or may not become 27 federal states but to do this they have to agree to become federal states and to agree many will have to put it the people in a vote as dictated by their constitutions. Many will put it to a referendum vote irrespective of their constitution as making such a big step without a popular mandate, and an overwhelming mandate at that, will likely end in tears.
I would also advise you to bin the ‘EU sycophants’ nonsense. It makes you sound unhinged.
@Saddleworth2 just wanting you to understand where Leavers draw some of their thoughts on the attitudes of Remainers fromNo.
This is the way it works. You say something factually wrong or just plain stupid. I correct the factual error or point out why you are being stupid. You then respond with (insert random babble) and accuse me and others of (insert blathering nonsense). I go make a cup of tea.
We are now at the making tea part of the conversation.
Challenge accepted!
Question 1. Is the UK asking for a trade deal with the EU like ‘Canada or Japan’?
Remember we do have access to your earlier answer.
Well said - cannot argue with that - I keep mentioning my hope that the UK maintains resolve - but I am very nervousPerhaps, but for me the UK has left and is now free to negotiate its own deals. Its success will depend on how well it negotiates with much stronger countries/blocks and indeed the rest of the world, but that was the temptation in leaving. Up to the government to deliver. :-)