Another new Brexit thread

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meltonblue said:
To be fair though, as much as you might have thought that, it’s equally disingenuous to say that was a consistent message conveyed throughout by people on the leave side of the argument too.

You can’t just argue your interpretation of it and not consider what people were actually saying to voters.
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Ha - I am in agreement with you...…..

So what @BobKowalski was actually seeking to do in that post was to associate those supporting the UK leaving the EU with the minority of people that might have 'racist views'. It is a tactic that has been used since 2016.

I can accept that for some people - reducing the ease of people into the UK was a consideration - perhaps even for a small percentage a primary driver - but it is (unsurprisingly) disingenuous to infer that the situation was:

"Politician who became PM on the back of promises to prevent the entry of Europeans into the UK begs Europeans to return to the UK."

the current PM became PM following the resignation of the previous PM and after a process following Party rules on selection of a replacement was conducted.

The current PM was then again confirmed in that position as the result of a GE that produced a landslide.

Disingenuous was just me being courteous - really, it is just dressed up and out and out deceit
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Ha - I am in agreement with you...…..

So what @BobKowalski was actually seeking to do in that post was to associate those supporting the UK leaving the EU with the minority of people that might have 'racist views'. It is a tactic that has been used since 2016.

I can accept that for some people - reducing the ease of people into the UK was a consideration - perhaps even for a small percentage a primary driver - but it is (unsurprisingly) disingenuous to infer that the situation was:

"Politician who became PM on the back of promises to prevent the entry of Europeans into the UK begs Europeans to return to the UK."

the current PM became PM following the resignation of the previous PM and after a process following Party rules on selection of a replacement was conducted.

The current PM was then again confirmed in that position as the result of a GE that produced a landslide.

Disingenuous was just me being courteous - really, it is just dressed up and out and out deceit
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That’s reading a fair bit into it! So your issue was with the disingenuous reason they give for Johnson becoming prime minister rather
than the comment itself?

Fair enough if so, I didn’t read that thinking they were giving it as the sole reason, just his comments on that particular topic.
 
For those trying to downplay control of EU immigration as a primary driver for voting for Brexit, it is complete bollocks. In a survey, the largest number of respondents, 40%, had it as their primary reason and a further 30% had it as their number 2 reason.
28047-B39-FA3-F-4288-9-A85-0-E686866-A98-B.png

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/up...-People’s-Stated-Reasons-for-Voting-Leave.pdf
 
mcfc1632 said:
Ha - I am in agreement with you...…..

So what @BobKowalski was actually seeking to do in that post was to associate those supporting the UK leaving the EU with the minority of people that might have 'racist views'. It is a tactic that has been used since 2016.

I can accept that for some people - reducing the ease of people into the UK was a consideration - perhaps even for a small percentage a primary driver - but it is (unsurprisingly) disingenuous to infer that the situation was:

"Politician who became PM on the back of promises to prevent the entry of Europeans into the UK begs Europeans to return to the UK."

the current PM became PM following the resignation of the previous PM and after a process following Party rules on selection of a replacement was conducted.

The current PM was then again confirmed in that position as the result of a GE that produced a landslide.

Disingenuous was just me being courteous - really, it is just dressed up and out and out deceit
Click to expand...

What I was actually doing was taking the piss. Hence ‘got to love the irony’ of a man campaigning throughout 2016 on the ‘horror’ of Europeans coming to the UK, making it more difficult and expensive for Europeans already living here and introducing an immigration policy to do the same.

If you want deceit then try looking at yourself as you pretend a policy that gives citizens, including ourselves, the legal right of freedom of movement within 30 countries free from Govt interference is discrimination. To pretend this is either dishonesty or stupidity. Pick one. Or both.
 
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meltonblue said:
That’s reading a fair bit into it! So your issue was with the disingenuous reason they give for Johnson becoming prime minister rather
than the comment itself?

Fair enough if so, I didn’t read that thinking they were giving it as the sole reason, just his comments on that particular topic.
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TBF - a few of them have been making those suggestions for years - it was all part of trying to associate Leavers with all things bad - particularly racist tendencies.

But it has become a lot less frequent nowadays - sometimes a few days can go by without such a reference
 
BobKowalski said:
What I was actually doing was taking the piss. Hence ‘got to love the irony’ of a man campaigning throughout 2016 on the ‘horror’ of Europeans coming to the UK, making it more difficult and expensive for Europeans already living here and introducing an immigration policy to do the same.

If you want deceit then try looking at yourself as you pretend a policy that gives citizens, including ourselves, the legal right of freedom of movement within 30 countries free from Govt interference is discrimination. To pretend this is either dishonesty or stupidity. Pick one. Or both.
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You got any mirrors in your house?

noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations
  1. 1.
    the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people
mcfc1632 said:
Simple test 1 - I am a non-qualified individual in one of the countries not in the EU...…..

Do I have the same rights as a similar individual from one of the EU27 to enter and live in the UK?

If not then it is simple and clear that I am discriminated against

Simple test 2 - I am a qualified/skilled individual in one of the countries not in the EU...…..

Do I have the same rights as a similar individual from one of the EU27 to enter and live in the UK?
​
If not then it is simple and clear that I am discriminated against

Simple test 3 - I am a qualified/skilled individual in one of the countries not in the EU...…..

Do I have the same, or better, rights as a non-qualified individual from one of the EU27 to enter and live in the UK?
​
If not then it is simple and clear that I am discriminated against

It is simple and plainly factual - undeniable so really​

That you cannot grasp the simple facts is no concern/issue/interest for me - that is on you
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bluethrunthru said:
like it was ever going to be anything else but surrender

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And there are some that keep believing the lies that they have been told (and the lies to the queen as well) from the very start.... from the £350 million a week to the NHS (God we could've done with that over the last three months ) on the side of the bus .... to the easy trade agreements that will be struck around the world, 'taking back control of our borders, 'sovereignty' , `and we will protect workers rights' to 'an 'oven ready deal' when really it was all about disaster capitalism and protecting the rich from having to disclose where they kept their wealth.

day after day after day we have suffered a diatribe about the possibility of the Eu failing , possibly becoming a federal state, possibly setting up an army, possibly forcing the euro on everyone, wasn't it @mcfc1632, @Mëtal Bikër @blueinsa @Ancient Citizen no doubt it would've ended up with possibly cubed tomatoes and possibly straight bananas. (we held vetoes on all of that anyway)

The Conservative Government have lied from the start (as they always do).... all the way through and are still lying now .... and now what everyone else had forecast is starting to come home to roost. (pun intended)
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
And there are some that keep believing the lies that they have been told (and the lies to the queen as well) from the very start.... from the £350 million a week to the NHS (God we could've done with that over the last three months ) on the side of the bus .... to the easy trade agreements that will be struck around the world, 'taking back control of our borders, 'sovereignty' , `and we will protect workers rights' to 'an 'oven ready deal' when really it was all about disaster capitalism and protecting the rich from having to disclose where they kept their wealth.

day after day after day we have suffered a diatribe about the possibility of the Eu failing , possibly becoming a federal state, possibly setting up an army, possibly forcing the euro on everyone, wasn't it @mcfc1632, @Mëtal Bikër @blueinsa @Ancient Citizen no doubt it would've ended up with possibly cubed tomatoes and possibly straight bananas. (we held vetoes on all of that anyway)

The Conservative Government have lied from the start (as they always do).... all the way through and are still lying now .... and now what everyone else had forecast is starting to come home to roost. (pun intended)
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You're a waste of thought.

But you avoided the use of "racism", so well done you!
 
mcfc1632 said:
You got any mirrors in your house?

noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations
  1. 1.
    the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people
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As a British citizen, you can vote in a general election for a government to set taxes. Is the UK government not discriminating by refusing that right to other residents who pay taxes?

(No taxation without representation.)

Any immigration policy is discriminatory as it discriminates about who can freely cross a border.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
And there are some that keep believing the lies that they have been told (and the lies to the queen as well) from the very start.... from the £350 million a week to the NHS (God we could've done with that over the last three months ) on the side of the bus .... to the easy trade agreements that will be struck around the world, 'taking back control of our borders, 'sovereignty' , `and we will protect workers rights' to 'an 'oven ready deal' when really it was all about disaster capitalism and protecting the rich from having to disclose where they kept their wealth.

day after day after day we have suffered a diatribe about the possibility of the Eu failing , possibly becoming a federal state, possibly setting up an army, possibly forcing the euro on everyone, wasn't it @mcfc1632, @Mëtal Bikër @blueinsa @Ancient Citizen no doubt it would've ended up with possibly cubed tomatoes and possibly straight bananas. (we held vetoes on all of that anyway)

The Conservative Government have lied from the start (as they always do).... all the way through and are still lying now .... and now what everyone else had forecast is starting to come home to roost. (pun intended)
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They’ve all said there’s nowt wrong with chlorinated chicken, which is true in most cases. However it is also used by the more unscrupulous food producers as a substitute for proper hygiene, hence the higher rates of food poisoning in the US and no doubt here as well in the future.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Ha - I am in agreement with you...…..

So what @BobKowalski was actually seeking to do in that post was to associate those supporting the UK leaving the EU with the minority of people that might have 'racist views'. It is a tactic that has been used since 2016.

I can accept that for some people - reducing the ease of people into the UK was a consideration - perhaps even for a small percentage a primary driver - but it is (unsurprisingly) disingenuous to infer that the situation was:

"Politician who became PM on the back of promises to prevent the entry of Europeans into the UK begs Europeans to return to the UK."

the current PM became PM following the resignation of the previous PM and after a process following Party rules on selection of a replacement was conducted.

The current PM was then again confirmed in that position as the result of a GE that produced a landslide.

Disingenuous was just me being courteous - really, it is just dressed up and out and out deceit
Click to expand...
And you accuse others of twisting words.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Still waiting on any of you to list the benefits that Brexit will deliver.....
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We're no longer going to be contributing to the EU budget
We're free to engage and have relationships with other nations outside the EU in any manner we choose
We're no longer regarded as "EU citizens"
We're no longer connected to the EU Parliament
We're no longer influenced by the unelected EU Commission
We're no longer committed to an isolationist bloc that shuts out the entire world and only promotes its own members, whilst disregarding the needs and terms of the rest of the world
We're no longer endorsing or promoting the "EU PROJECT", nor are our taxes/funds, resources and facilities being used to support its creation.

Naturally to a federal EU supporter like yourself these are not "benefits". They are to those who are opposed to what the EU has become. It'd be like trying to "convince" a rag on the benefits of supporting City. You've already chosen your outlook so I really don't know why you keep asking.
 
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