George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

Status
Not open for further replies.
mexico1970 said:
Again I thought it wasn't the protesters committing the violence, are they or aren't they? Protesting with violence about something that happened in the USA wont work in this country. Like the riots that happened in 2011 plod will visit in due time.
Click to expand...

Any significant protest will attract violence, often triggered by the police. The State is moved by violence and/or widespread civil disobedience. The State rules by consent or fear. If the State cannot command consent or fear it will collapse. Poll tax riots were a combination of violence and widespread civil disobedience. Collapse of East Germany and the destruction of the Berlin Wall because the State could no longer rule by fear. Polish shipyard movement in the 1980’s, the Paris riots in 1968 removed De Gaulle, the list is extensive.

As for here, so far it’s the removal of a statue of a slave trader, a police horse running into a traffic light and someone trying to set fire to a flag so let’s not get too carried away.

That our Home Sec and PM are worked up about a statue of someone who chucked sick people in chains overboard to drown tells you everything about them.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m somewhat ambivalent about that statue coming down.

Certainly, the malign relish with which it was brought down and trampled upon was unseemly - and many of the perpetrators are doubtless unsavoury characters, but it’s astonishing in this day and age that such a monument still resided in a major British city; especially one that’s relatively diverse and whose wealth was significantly built upon the disgusting bondage of slavery.

I’m always wary about imposing contemporary mores onto historical individuals, but there cannot have been a time in history where slavery, and the associated degradation and affront to human decency, was ever an acceptable thing to any right thinking person.

It’s certainly never been anything to celebrate, which is the ultimate purpose of a statue.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you’ve said but it’s worth just saying that the statue was erected due to him building hospitals with his money and mass charity work.

He was actually considered a big philanthropist at the time, which shows how fucked up societal norms and views were during the slave trade.

None of that work excuses his business, I would say he’s definitely a deeply immoral human figure but it’s important to understand the whole story with him.

The statue shouldn’t be there for such a man today but throwing it in a river isn’t helpful, stick it in a museum and educate visitors on how bad slavery was.
 
Ric said:
It’s not a power trip, I just think it’s bullshit that you point blank refuse to acknowledge that race was a factor in this case. To quote yourself, I see you.
Click to expand...
I feel compelled to state, that of all the many people I’ve encountered in my life, you are about the least disposed to go on a ‘power-trip’.

To me, such a notion is utterly absurd.

Me, on the other hand...
 
Ban-jani said:
I agree with everything you’ve said but it’s worth just saying that the statue was erected due to him building hospitals with his money and mass charity work.

He was actually considered a big philanthropist at the time, which shows how fucked up societal norms and views were during the slave trade.
Click to expand...
You could also ascribe those broad sentiments to Pablo Escobar, who, like Colston, was responsible for huge quantities of human suffering.
 
Ric said:
If none are personal insults then you should, ahem, fuck off ;)
Click to expand...

The one reported was very much a personal insult.

And you still haven’t answered my earlier question, how is what I’ve posted ‘bullshit’

Not sitting on the fence today, are we fella ;-)
 
Proy said:
The one reported was very much a personal insult.

And you still haven’t answered my earlier question, how is what I’ve posted ‘bullshit’

Not sitting on the fence today, are we fella ;-)
Click to expand...

Stop being a knob surely you must have been called an utter bellend before.
 
BobKowalski said:
Any significant protest will attract violence, often triggered by the police. The State is moved by violence and/or widespread civil disobedience. The State rules by consent or fear. If the State cannot command consent or fear it will collapse. Poll tax riots were a combination of violence and widespread civil disobedience. Collapse of East Germany and the destruction of the Berlin Wall because the State could no longer rule by fear. Polish shipyard movement in the 1980’s, the Paris riots in 1968 removed De Gaulle, the list is extensive.

As for here, so far it’s the removal of a statue of a slave trader, a police horse running into a traffic light and someone trying to set fire to a flag so let’s not get too carried away.

That our Home Sec and PM are worked up about a statue of someone who chucked sick people in chains overboard to drown tells you everything about them.
Click to expand...

Isn’t a police woman seriously injured?

I don’t think potentially setting off a second wave of a virus that’s already killed at least 40,000 in this country, vandalising war memorials of people who actually fought fascism and being violent to a police force here, for something that happened 3000 miles away in another state, is a reasonable response.

I totally appreciate the need to support marginalised people in other countries and to try and improve things for minorities here, I just don’t believe the above is a reasonable response.

I also understand that the protests are being aimed at racism towards black people across the world and not just in the US, however if George Floyd wasn’t sadly murdered there wouldn’t have been a UK protest, hence why I don’t think we should be doing damage to ourselves over atrocities in another state, hell, we’d be in real trouble if we did it for most things around the world of this nature.

I do get the feeling that some of those defending the protests would be up in arms if it was someone they disagreed with.

A mate of mine went apoplectic on social media over Cummings not obeying the rules, yet has been out twice for these marches and was sending photos from a packed Piccadilly Gardens on Saturday.
 
Proy said:
The one reported was very much a personal insult.

And you still haven’t answered my earlier question, how is what I’ve posted ‘bullshit’

Not sitting on the fence today, are we fella ;-)
Click to expand...
Sometimes sitting on the fence isn’t an option.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top