George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[Ban-jani]

Re your comment at the end...……...

"...….Regarding then 2nd part, the only way to improve individuals from being racist, is to improve education in this topic. "

Surely this is the current situation - as I would suggest is the evidence that any (certainly at least the vast majority) parents that have a school-aged child would observe

The vast vast majority will be yes.

Theres always the odd bad egg but if we can get to a position where that bad egg is the outcast in society for being racist, we’ve got there.

I do think we’re not far off that.

 

[Bigga]

Sorry - you have exceeded the monthly limit placed on posts to be exchanged with yourself.

Please try again next month

Yes, the usual response to getting burned is nonsense as you've shown.

 

[Ban-jani]

NOW, they are!

Filling a void left by the West!

This is definitely worth talking about.

Am I right in thinking they’re borrowing to certain African states to a level they’ll never be able to pay back, to garner political power over them?

We can’t talk as a civilisation in the West I know but we do need to call out others who are now doing it if we’re promising ourselves and potential victims that we won’t.

 

[blueinsa]

NOW, they are!

Filling a void left by the West!

I replied to you claiming current western interference?

 

[Bigga]

This is definitely worth talking about.

Am I right in thinking they’re borrowing to certain African states to a level they’ll never be able to pay back, to garner political power over them?

We can’t talk as a civilisation in the West I know but we do need to call out others who are now doing it if we’re promising ourselves and potential victims that we won’t.

As far as I know on the subject, that's right.

However, there seems to be a small trade off in Africans being allowed into China to reside and work in.

A small amount as far as i know, but also the Africans were the first to be really targeted when the virus broke out, believing they were the source!

 

[Ban-jani]

As far as I know on the subject, that's right.

However, there seems to be a small trade off in Africans being allowed into China to reside and work in.

A small amount as far as i know, but also the Africans were the first to be really targeted when the virus broke out, believing they were the source!

Yeah I saw that, they banned black people from certain restaurants and establishments, specifically McDonalds I believe.

Shocking really in 2020, no less in a modern superpower.

I’ve got a lot of grievances with China but that’s for another thread.

 

[bert38]

Ah, okay.

Am I thinking of... PSOs?

Is that their name...?

PCSO's.

PSU-are the public order trained officers-you see them with the nato helmets etc

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I appreciate some police officers are racist and people have died at their hands but how many are we actually talking and what percentage of police were involved, that makes it okay to attack police officers at random?

Of course not, and I'm sure that the vast majority of BLM proponents would condemn the people in that video attacking police officers. However, I think the difference between UK and US police isn't as big as you might think. A lot of the same biases occur, the difference is that in the UK it's far less likely to escalate into a lethal situation. I think the other difference is that the UK has less of a movement to actually keep the status quo and I think our police are institutionally more open to changing their practices.

But also a lot of the biases that occur in society at large can explain why black people are more likely to end up in confrontations with the police. 68% of white people own their own houses. This drops to just 20% for black people. 74% of Indian households are homeowners though, so it's not strictly something linked to immigration. This has been a problem for decades both in the UK and US. One of the main themes of Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing was about how in this black neighbourhood, all of the businesses were owned by other ethnicities. Since property is one of the main ways out of poverty as well as one of the main ways to get people to feel like they have a stake in society, the fact that so few black people still own homes 70 years after the windrush generation came over is clearly a big problem. I'm not sure the reasons for it, but I'm sure there's a long list.

 

[urban genie]

This is definitely worth talking about.

Am I right in thinking they’re borrowing to certain African states to a level they’ll never be able to pay back, to garner political power over them?

We can’t talk as a civilisation in the West I know but we do need to call out others who are now doing it if we’re promising ourselves and potential victims that we won’t.

From what I know from they offer credit schemes with interest below 2% paid of 10 years and have written off billions in old debts.

Unlike the west they have gone down a partnership and prosper route than outright loans where chinese companies use local people at all levels of the businesses and china collect a percentage of the profits from these african companies.

A lass I work with from Siera leone who revisited recently and was shocked at th investment in roads and transport links paid for by joint sino-afican ventures, she was told that litlte inteference is seen by local chinese firms.


Obviously it is still heavily weighted in favour of the chinese.

 

[Bigga]

I replied to you claiming current western interference?

Loads of studies and pieces on it...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...oks-new-players-old-powers-africas-conflicts/

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...westernisation-must-cast-off-its-subservience

https://africasacountry.com/2019/02...frica-that-foreign-intervention-is-a-bad-idea

Fill yer boots on it.

And just because the West have left some parts now, it doesn't mean their boot imprint has faded.

 

[Ban-jani]

Of course not, and I'm sure that the vast majority of BLM proponents would condemn the people in that video attacking police officers. However, I think the difference between UK and US police isn't as big as you might think. A lot of the same biases occur, the difference is that in the UK it's far less likely to escalate into a lethal situation. I think the other difference is that the UK has less of a movement to actually keep the status quo and I think our police are institutionally more open to changing their practices.

But also a lot of the biases that occur in society at large can explain why black people are more likely to end up in confrontations with the police. 68% of white people own their own houses. This drops to just 20% for black people. 74% of Indian households are homeowners though, so it's not strictly something linked to immigration. This has been a problem for decades both in the UK and US. One of the main themes of Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing was about how in this black neighbourhood, all of the businesses were owned by other ethnicities. Since property is one of the main ways out of poverty as well as one of the main ways to get people to feel like they have a stake in society, the fact that so few black people still own homes 70 years after the windrush generation came over is clearly a big problem. I'm not sure the reasons for it, but I'm sure there's a long list.

What do you think is causing the discrepancy?

 

[BobKowalski]

Nobody gives a shit about the statue in Bristol. Bob. Sending out coppers to be cannon fodder on the streets of our capital is another matter. Yes I can understand most of the police wearing standard issue gear for most of the day but security forces need to be responsive enough to adapt to increasingly risky situations with appropriately equipped and trained personnel.

They are not been sent out as cannon fodder and they are equipped. Where the officers went wrong was instead of a controlled retreat facing the crowd they ‘legged it’ which, like it or not, triggers the crowd to pursue. A controlled retreat is still managing the crowd. Legging it isn’t.

Sending in tooled up police with helmets and shields will provoke an instant ‘fight or flight’ response from the crowd. They fight, there will be casualties, they leg it and often the police will chase, discipline breaks down and there will be casualties. When you are hyped up you will chase a fleeing opponent. Training can check that instinct. Often it doesn’t.

The failure in this instance is allowing a handful of officers to become isolated and the officers showing their backs (which to be fair is understandable) but it goes against their training and further encourages the crowd.

 

[blueinsa]

Loads of studies and pieces on it...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...oks-new-players-old-powers-africas-conflicts/

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...westernisation-must-cast-off-its-subservience

https://africasacountry.com/2019/02...frica-that-foreign-intervention-is-a-bad-idea

Fill yer boots on it.

And just because the West have left some parts now, it doesn't mean their boot imprint has faded.

The above has what to do with American born African Americans or more to the point, institutional racism and a culture of violence in American Law Enforcement?

Believe it or not im in almost total agreement with you on the subject of this thread and having watched 13th last night, utterly educated and appalled at what has happened in America and is still happening but what the fuck are you trying to prove by going back hundreds of years in this day and age? Ive lived in Africa for nearly 5 years, married a South African and traveled extensively, seeing first hand the state of governance and the influence China is now having financially and politically as it strips what it wants itself.

 

[Ban-jani]

From what I know from they offer credit schemes with interest below 2% paid of 10 years and have written off billions in old debts.

Unlike the west they have gone down a partnership and prosper route than outright loans where chinese companies use local people at all levels of the businesses and china collect a percentage of the profits from these african companies.

A lass I work with from Siera leone who revisited recently and was shocked at th investment in roads and transport links paid for by joint sino-afican ventures, she was told that litlte inteference is seen by local chinese firms.


Obviously it is still heavily weighted in favour of the chinese.

Thanks for sharing.

Maybe it’s not quite as bad as I feared.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

What do you think is causing the discrepancy?

No idea, mate. I'd have to do a bit of reading into the history. I know that there was certainly a history back in the day of white homeowners being pressured to not sell to black families. And I guess the point of that and slavery itself is that something being put right doesn't instantly make everything okay. A black family being unable to buy a house in the 70s will affect their kids and grandkids later on when they don't get any inheritance.

 

[BlueHammer85]

For me I am sick of the word debate, sick of the fact that we all want our say and to debate everything, there was a time when the most British trait was quiet respect and dignity. It is a fact that with racism there is no debate, it needs to be stamped out in all institutions and that be the end of it, there is no argument against it, no debate to be had.

The toxicity that social media brings on debate is what we have seen over the weekend which is young people brandishing phones goading and throwing things at the police or defacing landmarks such as the cenotaph. None of this was done to show that Black Lives Matter, it was done as a display driven by the weird obssession people have in obtaining 'likes' and attention.

Social media in my opinion is the catalyst behind all of societies current problems and funnily enough it is also a major platform for racism.

yep well said, just so many sways of people desperate to have a different point of view - it's impossible to keep up with

 

[Ban-jani]

No idea, mate. I'd have to do a bit of reading into the history. I know that there was certainly a history back in the day of white homeowners being pressured to not sell to black families.

The single parent hood rate in the US has been highlighted as an area that’s pushing youngsters into crime and has a big impact on earnings, I do wonder if the data here is similar.

I know there’s groups on the ground trying to reverse the number of single parent households over there.

I’m not suggesting the issue is the fault of a particular minority, I’m just saying it’s maybe contributing.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Nobody gives a shit about the statue in Bristol. Bob. Sending out coppers to be cannon fodder on the streets of our capital is another matter. Yes I can understand most of the police wearing standard issue gear for most of the day but security forces need to be responsive enough to adapt to increasingly risky situations with appropriately equipped and trained personnel.

There’s no shortage of white idiots

 

[Mike Cledford]

I was thinking of Cummings because his strategy had millions of people coming out with bullshit about how they had never been allowed to discuss immigration before. I don’t know why you think I like Morgan. I’ve not forgotten how he risked British soldiers lives by printing fake torture pictures.

Tim l think you've got the wrong idea - l would be very surprised if you had any time for Morgan. I avoid Morgan like the plague so l don't know his past utterances but l caught a bit of him interviewing the lawyer for one of the American cops who was saying that his client had followed protocol over the drawing and subsequent holstering of his gun when the deceased refused at first to display his hands to show he was not armed.

He also said that the deceased had been saying he could not breathe when beinng put into the police car. I dont know how true that was but the lawyer was getting s bit fed up of Morgan and did Morgan's own trick of cutting the connection. So Morgan was criticising the lawyers professional ability and his increasingly witch like sidekick added something like "I, we, the whole studio crew think the lawyer is wrong' with the implication that the viewers had better think the same.

Sorry a long way to say l do not think you like
Morgan but the two question marks was a nit short.

 

[Ban-jani]

They are not been sent out as cannon fodder and they are equipped. Where the officers went wrong was instead of a controlled retreat facing the crowd they ‘legged it’ which, like it or not, triggers the crowd to pursue. A controlled retreat is still managing the crowd. Legging it isn’t.

Sending in tooled up police with helmets and shields will provoke an instant ‘fight or flight’ response from the crowd. They fight, there will be casualties, they leg it and often the police will chase, discipline breaks down and there will be casualties. When you are hyped up you will chase a fleeing opponent. Training can check that instinct. Often it doesn’t.

The failure in this instance is allowing a handful of officers to become isolated and the officers showing their backs (which to be fair is understandable) but it goes against their training and further encourages the crowd.

It’s still the crowds fault for attacking them.