George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

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Not seen what has gone on in the above posts tonight. Simple scenario for me is if George floyd had no colour say a sillouette what would people have done then?
 
ste1969 said:
Not seen what has gone on in the above posts tonight. Simple scenario for me is if George floyd had no colour say a sillouette what would people have done then?
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Called the FBI and said the local cops have lost the plot and are arresting a shadow?
 
Ban-jani said:
Called the FBI and said the local cops have lost the plot and are arresting a shadow?
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Unless it's this Shadow...

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Ban-jani said:
I understood you meant societal views and I disagree.

The UK, as well as most of the west, is being tested by the introduction of the internet into politics but we’re better now than 15 years ago.

I think you’re adding 2+2 and getting 5, without living here.

Do you think Britain’s colonial past has that much of an impact on your every day man and woman in the street now? Most youngsters know little about it nor have that much interest.

If I were to say something racist in my local shop I’d get punched and thrown out.

I work in Manchester and it’s incredibly multicultural, with people getting along just fine from all backgrounds. You saw what happened after the bomb, people came together.

People on your island, whilst I know it was Britain’s fault in the first place (doesn’t excuse it now), hate each other for being the wrong type Christian.

There’s hatred and division in all countries unfortunately but minorities are safer in Britain than most of the rest of the world, even other areas of Europe.
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I wouldn’t dispute any of that mate except your second last paragraph is a somewhat simplistic view of what happened in Northern Ireland and you don’t strike me as a simplistic kind of guy.
As I say I wouldn’t dispute what you say of the people of the UK. It has been my experience of my numerous times there, throughout the country.
I have always felt welcome.
Which is why I find the place paradoxical when it comes to some of the defence of all things British that comes from some elements that can’t define what Britishness is for you.

Back to your second last paragraph.
Saying it was Britain’s fault in the first place and then blaming it on what religion you are now, whereas I appreciate it is a quick summation, I think completely misses the key moments, for me, of Anglo-Irish history, particularly from the end of the 19th century to the start of the civil rights movement in the 1960’s and the Troubles from the 70’s on,
including our own ‘Rising’ and civil war and farce of 50-60 years of Irish politics. There is fault all around for how this became sectarian.

Anyway this thread is not the place for that debate. I think I may have gone off on one a few times about that in some of the other political threads.
Not going there again.

Just accept it Ban-jani your all mad.
I’m Irish. I know mad when I see it.
This thread has gone in a direction that is crazy in my view.
People displaying one point of view for one scenario and totally contradicting the same logic for a different agenda that doesn’t suit.

And all the time self righteously explaining they are right and it isn’t a contradiction.

That’s the crazy Im talking about.

Place the same logic and scenario on an America Trump supporter.

Just saying!
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think too much is made of this "black people to get equal treatment" line. I am sure there are examples of situations where they do not.

But SURELY there are many more examples - the VAST majority of situations actually - where black people do get decent and equal treatment? I mean, do you know of any racism or racist policies where you work? I don't. I work in IT, and I can tell you having been in the industry for 30+ years, I have never come across a single incident where any black person has been treated or looked at in any way differently from anyone else. I am sure it's the same in many, many industries. Skin colour is simply a complete non-issue. I don't even notice what skin colour people are.

Now, if you ask me does a black person growing up with a single mum in Moss Side have the same life chances as a white person growing up in Prestbury? Well probably not, no. But does a white person growing up in Moss SIde have the same life chances are the person in Prestbury? No, they don't either. Skin colour has bugger all to do with it.

Kids' life chances are much more greatly influenced by the attitude of their parents (and whether they give a shit or not), the mates they mix with, the school they go to and the aspirations they have. If you are a white kid with shit parents who don't give a toss, you hang about with morons for mates, go to a shit school and have no aspirations beyond dossing about, then you are hardly likely to be a tremendous success in life. How is this different for black or white kids? Is it REALLY the case that if you are born black then all things being equal, you cannot get as good school grades or get in at as good a university or get as good a job as a white person? I don't believe that is the case, the vast majority of the time.
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I think class is the bigger issue in this country.

A lot of the activists at these rallies will no doubt be supporters of getting black workers from foreign countries in on the cheap to do low-paid work.

This leads to negative outcomes in relation to whites (many of whom are middle class) in many, but not all, statistical comparisons due to their low earnings that affect the life chances of them and their children and is far more of an influence than race or racism imo.
 
I don't think anyone wants to erase history. They just don't want to glorify what they see as being repugnant about aspects of it. Thus a statue of a slaver gets torn down after repeated attempts to have it removed legally have been overlooked. The fact that he was also a philanthropist doesn't negate the other aspect.
 
JRockBlues said:
I don't think anyone wants to erase history. They just don't want to glorify what they see as being repugnant about aspects of it. Thus a statue of a slaver gets torn down after repeated attempts to have it removed legally have been overlooked. The fact that he was also a philanthropist doesn't negate the other aspect.
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It’s an interesting philosophical point, but it arguably mitigates it. Doesn’t mean the statue shouldn’t have been removed years ago, or what he did wasn’t objectively appalling, but very few humans are irredeemably bad imo and life isn’t about binary choices, as much as some people wish to characterise it in that way.
 
Raheem Sterling: “Taking a knee. I understand that - it’s another form of protesting. I want change. The change is being able to speak to people in Parliament, people at the hierarchy at my football club, and not just my club - clubs across the country..." #MCFC |

People at the national team of England, to implement change and give equal chances to black coaches and not just black coaches, but also different ethnicities. But also black coaches most importantly, because I don’t feel we get them..." #MCFC |
@ManCity

Raheem Sterling: “Not just coaches but people in their respective fields should have the right opportunity. I feel like that’s what’s lacking here. It’s not just taking the knee, it is about giving pe
ople the chance they deserve.” [via
@BBCNewsnight
https://mobile.twitter.com/City_Xtra/status/1270110692285337600
 
JRockBlues said:
I don't think anyone wants to erase history. They just don't want to glorify what they see as being repugnant about aspects of it. Thus a statue of a slaver gets torn down after repeated attempts to have it removed legally have been overlooked. The fact that he was also a philanthropist doesn't negate the other aspect.
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Nobody should erase any history but that is the problem. I think of the history NONE of us were taught in school...its not erased its just something that we approach. And its not just slavery....how many are taught to GCSE Level about things like the Peterloo Massacre or the Indian mutiny? The establishment perpetrate a certain version of English History. Until a "classicist" like Johnson can get his head round that fuck all will change

 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
It’s an interesting philosophical point, but it arguably mitigates it. Doesn’t mean the statue shouldn’t have been removed years ago, or what he did wasn’t objectively appalling, but very few humans are irredeemably bad imo and life isn’t about binary choices, as much as some people wish to characterise it in that way.
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TBH I've not looked too deeply into the history of this man. For all I know he could have been using slavery as a cover to solely fund the other aspects of his life. Don't know if he left any documented evidence to corroborate this or not but it still doesn't mean that in this day and age he should have a statue on display in a public place. By all means have one in a museum and use it as an educational aid.
 
blueeeee said:
The BLM protests aren’t causing more division between black and white people, they’re causing more division between racists and anti racists.
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Defacing national monuments is a step to far for me, regardless of who it is creating a division between. There's a division between right and wrong, if you can't protest without behaving like a mindless yob stay in doors. The irony of this at too, mind boggles. Imagine them trying this s*** in somewhere like Russia and China.
 
We are in the dark days of BM where posters are trying to justify support for statues of slavers and indignation for the defacement of plinths for those who's promotion isn't all what the populists would have us accept.
 
The comparison has been mentioned many times in the last few days, but imagine there was a statue of Jimmy Savile in his home town of Leeds to celebrate his extensive charitable work. Then he died and it came out that he was a predatory sex offender and had abused lots of children. Would you want that statue taken down, or would you be happy just to have a plaque changed to tell everyone about his crimes? I suspect the former. And the reason is obvious. A public statue is designed to celebrate someone. If you want to keep it as a lesson for future generations, put it in a museum.
 
bluethrunthru said:
We are in the dark days of BM where posters are trying to justify support for statues of slavers and indignation for the defacement of plinths for those who's promotion isn't all what the populists would have us accept.
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So is that what this movement is about then? Reparations for the past? Justice for crimes decades and centuries ago, or is it about current affairs? I'm sure the vast majority of protesters are peaceful, but the % who are a mob are going to cause trouble, and for what? Americas's issue?
 
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