George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[Deleted member 77198]

Are there any black match officials ? Maybe pigmol should start there

You’ve also got to remember though, the percentage of Great Britain’s population who are black is around 3%. There are 162 refs in the National List of Refs, six are black. That’s 3.7%.

And is it a race issue at all in this profession? How many working class white lads are referees? Are they more greatly underrepresented in that 162 than black people are compared to their percentage of the population?

You also have to look at it as; is it a job that young black men and working class white lads really want to get into?

To become a top level referee you have to stop playing football at a young age and start refereeing at quite a high level as a teenager. Maybe this is something that appeals to middle class white lads more than other demographics. Which is more obvious when you see how football teams are made up of black and working class white lads, with far fewer middle class white lads playing the game.

It may very well have absolutely nothing to do with discrimination.

 

[Mike Cledford]

Fawlty Towers "dont mention the war" now axed from the Beeb.
Will it never end ??

Now back with some sort of warning FFS.

I doubt the Germans will be displeased as so much of their recent history is quietly forgotten about.

 

[stonerblue]

If you've followed the racial politics in the USA for the past decade you'll be entirely familiar with this pattern, where a tiny minority of BLM people do something ridiculous and then people on the right, who don't want to have the conversation about race amplify it over and over until it drowns out the message.

Colin Kaepernick is the perfect example. There was a sustained, deliberate and ultimately successful attempt to completely drown out Kaepernick's message and replace it with an argument about the flag.

Trump, Barr and co. tried the same with "Antifa" as a bogeyman this time, Trump shrieking about it and ruling them a terrorist organisation (despite not being an organisation) and the aim was to pretend that the protests were just a cover for "extremists" sowing discontent so people like Trump and his supporters could say "Oh how awful that antifa is" instead of saying "Christ, millions of people are marching in protest over decades worth of racist abuse in this country".

And we're seeing the same thing here, exacerbated by the fact that BLM in the UK is very poorly organised and run because it's imitating US protests instead of being an organic movement against discrimination in this country which obviously does exist.

As an aside @Ric, it might be time to split up the US protests/movement and the UK protests into different threads.

Nailed it.

 

[urban genie]

Gerrard and Lampard walked into top line jobs. Neville got the Valencia job with no experience whatsoever. Shearer at Newcastle. A top black player won’t be walking into a top line job with no experience that easily. Closest I can think is Gullit at Chelsea and Henry at Monaco.

As John Barnes pointed out the other day, there were many managers at celtic with worse records that were given time to rectify mistakes.

He didn't deny he wasn't great just that people with the same record were not so quickly sacked.

It’s a fact of life you employ who you know, who you can relate to and who you are comfortable with. It’s why Big Sam, Hughes and the like keep getting jobs. It’s as much an unconscious thing as anything else. Forcing employers to look outside there comfort zone is no bad thing.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[BobKowalski]

Indeed, which therefore shows that the diversity of the cabinet would be given to the right diverse people for the job if the diversity of the individuals made the cabinet better.

But if there wasn’t an individual or a few individuals who are black who would make the cabinet better because, by chance, they just wouldn’t be as good at the job as the people in the positions now; they shouldn’t be given positive discrimination and just given the roles because of the colour of their skin.

Now, if there is only one black MP in the cabinet like there is now, because others have been blocked from getting the position (who would make the cabinet better) due to racist undertones; then let’s challenge it. But is that the case?

Likewise, if there was a board of people that didn’t need a middle-aged middle-class white bloke, then he shouldn’t just be given a place on that board just for the sake of diversity.

You will know when we have racial or sex equality when a black man or any woman can repeatedly fuck up in top jobs like a middle aged white guy does and still get another top job. If Trump was black you wouldn’t be able to move for learned articles about how this ‘proved’ black people cannot handle such complex jobs.

Johnson is the same. Shite as London Mayor, poor leadership skills, lazy and no fan of details or facts. His punishment as a fat, middle aged white guy? They make him PM.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

You will know when we have racial or sex equality when a black man or any woman can repeatedly fuck up in top jobs like a middle aged white guy does and still get another top job. If Trump was black you wouldn’t be able to move for learned articles about how this ‘proved’ black people cannot handle such complex jobs.

Johnson is the same. Shite as London Mayor, poor leadership skills, lazy and no fan of details or facts. His punishment as a fat, middle aged white guy? They make him PM.

In this country, is this not a class thing more than it is a race thing?

You only have to listen to what Dominic Cummings father-in-law said about how he thinks his class of people are more genetically predisposed to create great minds and great leaders than the lower classes of people.

They genuinely think they’re better than us, whether we’re white black or pink and green polkadotted.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Finally boris has come out and said something.

compared to America. We’ve handled it really well.

graffiti on a few statues and a police horse ride into a lamppost

 

[domalino]

There are “enough” that have retired from each and every one of those leagues, yet very few have made the leap to management.

Maybe they interview badly, or maybe they have the football world against them (sometimes subconsciously) and can’t get a job.

Perhaps, which more often than not is the judgement of a white owner. It's interesting that with playing, where it's basically a meritocracy, black people do well, but as soon as their future is decided on the whims of a few chairmen, they suddenly struggle.

The one that gets me is Frank Rijkaard. This was a young manager who won two La Ligas and a Champions League with Barcelona, and then went on the manage Galatasaray, ended up in Saudi Arabia, and then quit management to run a football academy in America. And you wonder why he went to Galatasaray. Did he just follow the money, or did he not get offered anything better? Because we all know that usually a manager with that record leaving Barcelona would immediately jump to another top club in the big four leagues.

Arteta got the Arsenal manager's job, and he's done well, but if you're going to base it on hiring an ex-player with a managerial record, then surely Patrick Vieira was more qualified for the role? I wonder if he was even considered.

The other issue though is that there doesn't really seem to be any link with being a good player and being a good manager. Managers like Pep or Zidane are the exception. So it's perhaps not fair to look at Premier League football itself, but look at professional football as a whole. Although even then, you'll likely see the same pattern.

We know that when the NFL introduced the Rooney rule meaning teams had to simply interview a black coach for the head coach position before deciding, the numbers of black coaches went up significantly.

Once they were able to get in the room, they had a chance.

Now the NFL is rolling out the rule to lower positions as well, because one of the problems they have is theres almost no black assistant coaches or positional coaches and that's become a limiting factor.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

compared to America. We’ve handled it really well.

graffiti on a few statues and a police horse ride into a lamppost

I wish we stopped comparing ourselves to the USA. We are no comparison to that armpit of the world.
As a country I think we’d be better off if we got our noses out of that country.

We’re obsessed with the place.

From its politics, with every word Trump says being on, sometimes being the top news story, on our News every day. I don’t care, he’s an orange joke of an excuse of a man. To its weather, with every hurricane season we are told about the devastation Hurricane Nigel is about to take to some backwards state in that country. I don’t care, I might chuckle if it kills a few redneck racists but that’s about it. To its films... we even have entire channels that play their tv programmes 24 hours a day.

We compare ourselves to the place far too much. I think it’s time we started to look away from the shithole!

 

[BlueHammer85]

I wish we stopped comparing ourselves to the USA. We are no comparison to that armpit of the world.
As a country I think we’d be better off if we got our noses out of that country.

We’re obsessed with the place.

From its politics, with every word Trump says being on, sometimes being the top news story, on our News every day. I don’t care, he’s an orange joke of an excuse of a man. To its weather, with every hurricane season we are told about the devastation Hurricane Nigel is about to take to some backwards state in that country. I don’t care, I might chuckle if it kills a few redneck racists but that’s about it. To its films... we even have entire channels that play their tv programmes 24 hours a day.

We compare ourselves to the place far too much. I think it’s time we started to look away from the shithole!

Ok. America out of the equation.
So far the Government and Police have handled our protests/riots very well.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

We know that when the NFL introduced the Rooney rule meaning teams had to simply interview a black coach for the head coach position before deciding, the numbers of black coaches went up significantly.

Once they were able to get in the room, they had a chance.

Now the NFL is rolling out the rule to lower positions as well, because one of the problems they have is theres almost no black assistant coaches or positional coaches and that's become a limiting factor.

My question was rhetorical really. I don’t believe none interview well. It will be bias, be it conscious or subconscious, mixed with fear of losing out on revenue.

I’ll always be a believer in the best person should get the job. The law of averages at the moment suggests they don’t always.

Positive discrimination can be a dangerous path to go down though, if handled badly.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Now back with some sort of warning FFS.

I doubt the Germans will be displeased as so much of their recent history is quietly forgotten about.

What recent history is that?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

To its weather, with every hurricane season we are told about the devastation Hurricane Nigel is about to take to some backwards state in that country. I don’t care, I might chuckle if it kills a few redneck racists but that’s about it. To its films... we even have entire channels that play their tv programmes 24 hours a day.

Hurricane Nigel sounds a bit more British than American to me, mate!

 

[Blue Hefner]

Now back with some sort of warning FFS.

I doubt the Germans will be displeased as so much of their recent history is quietly forgotten about.

It wasn’t taken down because of the war. It was taken down whist they edit the N-word out. BBC already did this back in 2013 so it’s available on IPlayer I believe if you want to watch it

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

We know that when the NFL introduced the Rooney rule meaning teams had to simply interview a black coach for the head coach position before deciding, the numbers of black coaches went up significantly.

I thought the Rooney rule involved picking the oldest female who applied for the job...

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

What recent history is that?

They got nul points in Eurovision 2015.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

They got nul points in Eurovision 2015.

Shameful episode, although tbf it was quite a catchy tune.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

My question was rhetorical really. I don’t believe none interview well. It will be bias, be it conscious or subconscious, mixed with fear of losing out on revenue.

I’ll always be a believer in the best person should get the job. The law of averages at the moment suggests they don’t always.

Positive discrimination can be a dangerous path to go down though, if handled badly.

One of the refs in Super League is gay. He’s often given the big games that are on Sky, definitely more so than his ratio as an individual to the overall pack of refs.

The thing is, he’s one of the worst refs and often ruins the flow of a game. He’s given positive discrimination sometimes to the detriment of the spectacle Sky and Super League are actually trying to achieve for rugby league on tele for the sake of trying to be seen as diverse.

His quality as a referee has nothing to do with his sexuality, however, he is chosen for games on tele more than others might be because of his sexuality.

I think that’s as unhealthy as someone not being given the same opportunities because of their sexuality/race/gender/class.

 

[dronefromsector7G]

Hurricane Nigel sounds a bit more British than American to me, mate!

Hurricane Tad?

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Fawlty Towers "dont mention the war" now axed from the Beeb.
Will it never end ??

I had a grandparent who was raised in Hitler's Germany. We have a photo at home somewhere in a cupboard of one of my grandmother's uncles in the full get up, complete with eagle and swastika. My grandmother wasn't ever offended by that episode whenever it came on the telly.