#9 | Gabriel Jesus - 2019/20 Performances

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No - we're the most successful team in the PL since Jesus arrived. It's not because of him, more than anyone else, but our results don't dip when he plays - and this season our results have been better when he plays. He's been involved in 29 goals this season and that's comparable with Mane and De Bruyne - the favourites for player of the season.

It would be great if his conversion rate was better, but if it was comparable to Calvert-Lewin or Iheanacho and he'd played a similar number of games to Mane, then he'd be approaching 50 goals+assists for the season, and would be considered the best player in the league by some distance.

I can see we're going to disagree, but I really don't understand why he's singled out for abuse in a season when he's only played half the games and still contributed to 29 goals.


Same reason as to why certain players have been on the end of stick on here since forever. Gundogan, Rodri, Walker, Mahrez, Sané, Zinchenko, Mendy, Otamendi, Stones, Sterling, Jesus etc. Because it's easy to. There's a lot of complexity behind our issues and it's easier to point the finger than to dive deep and understand things in ways that are more meaningful long term. The reality is most of the negative outbursts are from people who have these pent up negative emotions and just need somewhere to direct it. It's easier to blame a small thing (like a player) than have a discussion about some larger issue. Obviously some are actually being reasonable with their dissenting views but you can tell those apart by how they present their points.

And also people can be stubborn (eg look at Gundogan or Mendy threads).



Go back to the Sterling threads during his recent dry run and you'll have seen multiple posts essentially begging Real Madrid to put an offer in. People have spent years talking about Mendy being a shit defender despite the fact he's for the most part been a very good defender. Gundogan is always shat on for being worse than Fernandinho and yet last night showed it's clearly nothing to do with the personnel. People have been giving Sané shit for wanting to go and yet those same people probably gave Sané shit because he let a ball go out for a throw in a few times. You have people bashing the media for being anti-City but some of the vile on these forums by City fans makes the media seem friendly in comparison. This and the Mendy thread are filled with people with this weird determination not just to write off a City player, but also to be right about it. As if they want them to fail just to say they told you so.

Negativity prompts reactions more too. That's why post-match threads when we win are quiet.

He's not singled out for abuse, because plenty get abuse.
 
where've you got 29 from? 10 goals and 5 assists, if you counting passes before that then everyone in the squad has contributed to most of our goals.

he’s speaking about all competitions. De Bruyne has 33 G&A, Sterling 32, Aguero 27, Jesus 29.
 
No - we're the most successful team in the PL since Jesus arrived. It's not because of him, more than anyone else, but our results don't dip when he plays - and this season our results have been better when he plays. He's been involved in 29 goals this season and that's comparable with Mane and De Bruyne - the favourites for player of the season.

It would be great if his conversion rate was better, but if it was comparable to Calvert-Lewin or Iheanacho and he'd played a similar number of games to Mane, then he'd be approaching 50 goals+assists for the season, and would be considered the best player in the league by some distance.

I can see we're going to disagree, but I really don't understand why he's singled out for abuse in a season when he's only played half the games and still contributed to 29 goals.

Well this just isn't true at all. He's been involved in 15 which is closer to half. You've got your numbers completely mixed up here mate.
 
he’s speaking about all competitions. De Bruyne has 33 G&A, Sterling 32, Aguero 27, Jesus 29.

The PL numbers is the best source of comparison. We've played some stinkers in various cup runs with some unbelievable creative players behind him, I'm sure Iheanacho would match similar numbers for us if he had made 45 appearances.
 
The PL numbers is the best source of comparison. We've played some stinkers in various cup runs with some unbelievable creative players behind him, I'm sure Iheanacho would match similar numbers for us if he had made 45 appearances.

how about Champions league? Jesus already has 5 goals and 2 assists this season. Agüero’s best ever return was 6 goals and 2 assists in the Champions league.

I’m not saying Jesus is better or anything like that obviously, just offering some perspective. Jesus is a permanent back up. The striker in front of him is arguably the best in PL history. Imagine how demotivating it must be for Jesus knowing whatever he does, he’ll never be first choice.
 
how about Champions league? Jesus already has 5 goals and 2 assists this season. Agüero’s best ever return was 6 goals and 2 assists in the Champions league.

I’m not saying Jesus is better or anything like that obviously, just offering some perspective. Jesus is a permanent back up. The striker in front of him is arguably the best in PL history. Imagine how demotivating it must be for Jesus knowing whatever he does, he’ll never be first choice.

The issue is that the numbers only tell you half the story. I recall Iheanacho having the best goals per minute ratio in the PL for a little while but it doesn't speak to his quality as a striker; the same as Jesus. He is a permanent back up and that's ultimately his ceiling at the moment because he isn't capable of leading a line and being the difference maker for a top side. He's scored 10 goals this season while missing 21 big chances, the most in the league. It's those sort of stats that act as a difference between losing 1-0 to Southampton and nicking a 2-1 win.
 
I think looking at goals alone when we know it's more than that is a tad lazy.

Harry Kane's top two goalscoring season (in all comps) was in 16/17 and 17/18 where he scored 35 and 41 goals respectively. Aguero's best season was 33, and he's got a few in the very low 30's too. But never 35 and never 41.

Was Harry Kane better than Aguero in 17/18?

Erling Haaland has just scored 44 goals and he's 19 playing with worse players and had to do it moving team midseason. Does that mean he's currently better than Aguero ever was?

Jadon Sancho is on 40 goal contributions and he's 20, playing as a winger. Is he better than Aguero?


No, Aguero is and has for a long time been fucking quality. What makes him special lie beyond just goal numbers. Same for any forward.

Some guys score goals and some guys score fewer goals but do other shit. If their team has good results when they play chances are they're good.

Jesus actually scores a good amount of goals too on top of that.
 
I think looking at goals alone when we know it's more than that is a tad lazy.

Harry Kane's top two goalscoring season (in all comps) was in 16/17 and 17/18 where he scored 35 and 41 goals respectively. Aguero's best season was 33, and he's got a few in the very low 30's too. But never 35 and never 41.

Was Harry Kane better than Aguero in 17/18?

Erling Haaland has just scored 44 goals and he's 19 playing with worse players and had to do it moving team midseason. Does that mean he's currently better than Aguero ever was?

Jadon Sancho is on 40 goal contributions and he's 20, playing as a winger. Is he better than Aguero?


No, Aguero is and has for a long time been fucking quality. What makes him special lie beyond just goal numbers. Same for any forward.

Some guys score goals and some guys score fewer goals but do other shit. If their team has good results when they play chances are they're good.

Jesus actually scores a good amount of goals too on top of that.

Aguero's numbers are phenomenal. The reason he hasn't hit more than 33 is because he doesn't play the entirety of a season unlike Kane has. Of course numbers aren't everything but if you breakdown Jesus' abilities and compare him to the 23 yo Sergio that arrived in 2011, how does he compare?
 
Aguero's numbers are phenomenal. The reason he hasn't hit more than 33 is because he doesn't play the entirety of a season unlike Kane has. Of course numbers aren't everything but if you breakdown Jesus' abilities and compare him to the 23 yo Sergio that arrived in 2011, how does he compare?
Better in some ways, weaker in others.
 
how about Champions league? Jesus already has 5 goals and 2 assists this season. Agüero’s best ever return was 6 goals and 2 assists in the Champions league.

I’m not saying Jesus is better or anything like that obviously, just offering some perspective. Jesus is a permanent back up. The striker in front of him is arguably the best in PL history. Imagine how demotivating it must be for Jesus knowing whatever he does, he’ll never be first choice.

We had an Europa League level group hence why he played. Real Madrid, granted, was one of his few standout performances but one swallow does not make a season.
 
What is Jesus better than a 23 year old Aguero at?
Most of the things he's currently better at than Aguero now. Link-up play, creativity, skillfulness, pressing, general movement, getting on the end of crosses (albeit his heading isn't anything to shout about). And Aguero was better at the things he still is better at now. Finishing, getting on the end of lower crosses and general being a fox in the box, consistency and confidence, acceleration, staying onside, probably two-footedness in shooting and probably dribbling too.

They both historically have had a similar xG, which would suggest they're similarly capable of creating chances for themselves and getting on the end of chances. I think Jesus is maybe a little better at creating his own chances and Aguero a little better at being in the right place for things, but there's not much in it.

Current Aguero (or maybe up until last year) is a better player than he was at 23. The only thing the younger Aguero had is more pace to burn. Older Aguero is a significantly smarter player and in my opinion a more accomplished finisher than 23 year old Aguero. It's likely older Jesus will be better than current Jesus too.
 
"Sterling and Mahrez, another lonely day for Jesus"
I said this on page two of the matchday forum. One of the most avid detractors jumps in right away with something like
"well, he could try kicking it in the goal" completely missing the point that you can't kick what isn't given.
Sterling and Mahrez are both selfish, they are competing with each other along with Gabby for time. Their first move is to go it alone, they rarely if ever turn and look to quickly play the diagonal through ball to the striker, a ball he can actually do something with.
They don't look or see the bigger picture because they have "I" problems.
Instead they hold on looking to take a shot, by this time the opp. has parked the bus so they take a bad shot, make a poor cross, or pass it back and we then have to break down the whole team giving up an advantageous position like a 2 on 2 or something similar.
Raz and Mahrez are each very good players and they look good on the team sheet, but it doesn't work like it should.
5-6 of our 9 losses and one of our draws was this formation and Aguero's production in these games was woeful as well.
In most of the other dropped point games with only one of them starting, scoring goals wasn't the problem.
 
"Sterling and Mahrez, another lonely day for Jesus"
I said this on page two of the matchday forum. One of the most avid detractors jumps in right away with something like
"well, he could try kicking it in the goal" completely missing the point that you can't kick what isn't given.
Sterling and Mahrez are both selfish, they are competing with each other along with Gabby for time. Their first move is to go it alone, they rarely if ever turn and look to quickly play the diagonal through ball to the striker, a ball he can actually do something with.
They don't look or see the bigger picture because they have "I" problems.
Instead they hold on looking to take a shot, by this time the opp. has parked the bus so they take a bad shot, make a poor cross, or pass it back and we then have to break down the whole team giving up an advantageous position like a 2 on 2 or something similar.
Raz and Mahrez are each very good players and they look good on the team sheet, but it doesn't work like it should.
5-6 of our 9 losses and one of our draws was this formation and Aguero's production in these games was woeful as well.
In most of the other dropped point games with only one of them starting, scoring goals wasn't the problem.

he had 6 chances yesterday, he has no excuse.
 
he had 6 chances yesterday, he has no excuse.
Agree that Mahrez is still too greedy. However despite Gabriel having a great all round game, I don't see him as the main centre forward in the team right now.
I see him being able to play across the front line but not as the main man. Hope I'm wrong
 
He’s unfortunately not big enough to be effective as the selfless target man who brings other into play that people deem him to be; I genuinely think we could do with one - we’ve got the best crosser of a ball in world football in KDB, a genuine aerial threat would add another dimension to our game, plus another 10 assists per season for Kev.

Calvert-Lewin’s development at Everton this season, plus his physical profile and mobility, would make him a viable replacement if we manage to extort some decent money out of an Italian club for Jesus.


Delap looks like the best striking talent in the academy since Sturridge, and already a unit, so he could be a solution medium/long term - it’d be interesting to see him given a few cameos off the bench in the last few games/preseason.
You cant be serious. You remind me of .A. couple of years back, during Pellegrini era he posted. He always wanted English players even if they were shit.
 
Most of the things he's currently better at than Aguero now. Link-up play, creativity, skillfulness, pressing, general movement, getting on the end of crosses (albeit his heading isn't anything to shout about). And Aguero was better at the things he still is better at now. Finishing, getting on the end of lower crosses and general being a fox in the box, consistency and confidence, acceleration, staying onside, probably two-footedness in shooting and probably dribbling too.

They both historically have had a similar xG, which would suggest they're similarly capable of creating chances for themselves and getting on the end of chances. I think Jesus is maybe a little better at creating his own chances and Aguero a little better at being in the right place for things, but there's not much in it.

Current Aguero (or maybe up until last year) is a better player than he was at 23. The only thing the younger Aguero had is more pace to burn. Older Aguero is a significantly smarter player and in my opinion a more accomplished finisher than 23 year old Aguero. It's likely older Jesus will be better than current Jesus too.

I would disagree with your evaluation of 23 year old Aguero. Aguero was very accomplished in linking up play and, at times, played just behind Dzeko and would be far more of a ball carrier than he is now. Aguero produced more assists, created 9 big chances compared to Jesus' 3 and played more passes per game. I'd also disagree about Jesus being better in his general movement or getting on the end of crosses; his movement is severely hindered by his poor awareness and Aguero was unbelievable anticipating where the ball would be as evidenced by multiple world class CBs such as Vidic lauding him at that age. All the attributes that are seen as necessary for a striker, Aguero was better than Jesus.

They also don't have a similar xG, Aguero's always been better despite Aguero playing for longer, against tougher opposition, under different systems and managers and having constant injuries that have disrupted his rhythm. Simply put it, Jesus isn't better than Aguero now and Aguero at 23 with his ridiculous acceleration, improved physicality and agility was miles better than the Jesus we're seeing now.
 
Well this just isn't true at all. He's been involved in 15 which is closer to half. You've got your numbers completely mixed up here mate.

Jesus has been involved in 29 goals this season, 18 goals and 11 assists.

I would have thought if you're going to call someone out over stats being wrong, you'd look them up first?

I know some sites disagree on assists, but given the lad has got 18 goals alone, anyone should be able to work out he's been involved in more than 15 goals.
 
Jesus has been involved in 29 goals this season, 18 goals and 11 assists.

I would have thought if you're going to call someone out over stats being wrong, you'd look them up first?

I know some sites disagree on assists, but given the lad has got 18 goals alone, anyone should be able to work out he's been involved in more than 15 goals.

I know the stats and I was looking solely at the PL numbers. Looking beyond the PL numbers is a poor representation. Sure Jesus has just less than Mane in all competitons but Jesus' favourable numbers in cup competitions comes when we play below par sides whereas someone like Mane is competing against better opposition for the most part. Hence the numbers would be skewed. If we look at just the PL, all teams face the same opponents hence the same difficulty, so a far better representation of how Jesus has done.
 
I know the stats and I was looking solely at the PL numbers. Looking beyond the PL numbers is a poor representation. Sure Jesus has just less than Mane in all competitons but Jesus' favourable numbers in cup competitions comes when we play below par sides whereas someone like Mane is competing against better opposition for the most part. Hence the numbers would be skewed. If we look at just the PL, all teams face the same opponents hence the same difficulty, so a far better representation of how Jesus has done.
His 5 goals in the Champion's League don't count now? Seems weird.
 
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