CAS judgement: UEFA ban overturned, City exonerated (report out p603)

Delboy352 said:
Why didn’t they investigate #LFCHackingscandal even though the FA said they weren’t going to, as it was too historic??
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I think this is cross-purposes.

The scouting access got a payment made, FA said it was too old.

Over us, the FA acknowledged that they were looking at it, but have made no further comment on the matter. It's likely that they were waiting for UEFA/CAS to end and see what evidence there was, and it's quite likely that they will then invoke the timeframe thing as well.

The FA have only had a few days since the full CAS judgement came out, and wouldn't want to clash the cup final. Them not having said anything isn't automatically negative.
 
KS55 said:
I would be amazed. Long way to go before we have normal relations with Uefa.
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I've noticed that being on Bluemoon (this thread in particular) people feed each others' conspiracy theories to the point where in my opinion you lose sight a little bit of the reality of the situation. Go back to Soriano's interview after the 2 year ban was announced. He talked about having friends at UEFA. City's issues aren't going to be with the governing bodies moving forward (I'd argue even this entire Football Leaks nonsense wasn't pushed by UEFA), City's issues are with their rivals pushing for things and with the media trying to smear them.

As I say, I think that we'll have a rep on the ECA very soon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what my opinion is for now.
 
BillyShears said:
I've noticed that being on Bluemoon (this thread in particular) people feed each others' conspiracy theories to the point where in my opinion you lose sight a little bit of the reality of the situation. Go back to Soriano's interview after the 2 year ban was announced. He talked about having friends at UEFA. City's issues aren't going to be with the governing bodies moving forward (I'd argue even this entire Football Leaks nonsense wasn't pushed by UEFA), City's issues are with their rivals pushing for things and with the media trying to smear them.

As I say, I think that we'll have a rep on the ECA very soon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what my opinion is for now.
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Fully agree.
 
BillyShears said:
I've noticed that being on Bluemoon (this thread in particular) people feed each others' conspiracy theories to the point where in my opinion you lose sight a little bit of the reality of the situation. Go back to Soriano's interview after the 2 year ban was announced. He talked about having friends at UEFA. City's issues aren't going to be with the governing bodies moving forward (I'd argue even this entire Football Leaks nonsense wasn't pushed by UEFA), City's issues are with their rivals pushing for things and with the media trying to smear them.

As I say, I think that we'll have a rep on the ECA very soon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what my opinion is for now.
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Correct. As for the last sentence, I think we should have focused on establishing ourselves in the main corridors of power before what I see as the vanity project of CFG. Any benefits that CFG brings are, in my view, insignificant compared to the ones that having a seat at the top table would have brought us.
 
BillyShears said:
I've noticed that being on Bluemoon (this thread in particular) people feed each others' conspiracy theories to the point where in my opinion you lose sight a little bit of the reality of the situation. Go back to Soriano's interview after the 2 year ban was announced. He talked about having friends at UEFA. City's issues aren't going to be with the governing bodies moving forward (I'd argue even this entire Football Leaks nonsense wasn't pushed by UEFA), City's issues are with their rivals pushing for things and with the media trying to smear them.

As I say, I think that we'll have a rep on the ECA very soon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what my opinion is for now.
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We will just have to wait and see. I agree we have some friends at Uefa, such as Ceferin. My doubts are whether he can win the argument while G14 clubs have so much influence there.
As for the ECA, G14 have captured about three quarters of the seats on the exec committee. Think it was Martin Samuels who asked, ironically, why Woodward spent so much time in the corridors of the ECA.
I dont believe in a conspiracy, rather that certain clubs will always act together in their own interests even to the point where football is damaged. See the effect of FFP on debt growth and competitiveness.
 
KS55 said:
I dont believe in a conspiracy, rather that certain clubs will always act together in their own interests even to the point where football is damaged.
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How is that not a conspiracy?

Acting in bad faith, with others, in furtherance of a common purpose, is a conspiracy surely?
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Correct. As for the last sentence, I think we should have focused on establishing ourselves in the main corridors of power before what I see as the vanity project of CFG. Any benefits that CFG brings are, in my view, insignificant compared to the ones that having a seat at the top table would have brought us.
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CFG is not a vanity project! It is an attempt to creart a global entertainment group with football at its core, but with much wider elements. Soriano has persued that dream for many years. He proposed it to Barca, but they turned him down. Serendipity presented him with another chance when ADUG bought City. Hence he moved here.
Agreed, short term City may have been better off concentrating on ourselves, but long term CFG will provide us with a huge platform for development. See Silverlake, eg.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
De novo is a fresh rehearing of the evidence with new evidence also being permitted as part of that decision. Each party brings whatever evidence it wishes to the hearing (subsisting and ‘new’) and providing it’s admissible, it’s up to the tribunal to attach the appropriate weight and make a determination upon without being bound by the previous decision and its findings. The inclusion of that evidence is not inconsistent with de novo proceedings.

In terms of the second paragraph, it would be equally worrisome (for me at least) if stolen emails were never admissible in any circumstances. How they were obtained, for what purpose, their relevance and probative value should also be taken into account. Absolute rules of evidence are usually contrary to the interests of justice imo.
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Thanks M'Lud ;)
 
If not providing certain info to your leaky judge, jury and executioner is a severe breach, how severe a breach is it to claim £50m a year of stadium planning consultancy fees for 2 consecutive years for a new stadium that never happened? Not at all serious I assume
 
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KS55 said:
We will just have to wait and see. I agree we have some friends at Uefa, such as Ceferin. My doubts are whether he can win the argument while G14 clubs have so much influence there.
As for the ECA, G14 have captured about three quarters of the seats on the exec committee. Think it was Martin Samuels who asked, ironically, why Woodward spent so much time in the corridors of the ECA.
I dont believe in a conspiracy, rather that certain clubs will always act together in their own interests even to the point where football is damaged. See the effect of FFP on debt growth and competitiveness.
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I.e. conspiring
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
How is that not a conspiracy?

Acting in bad faith, with others, in furtherance of a common purpose, is a conspiracy surely?
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Yes, a good definition.
Leads us back to the old legal argument as to whether conspiracy can stand alone as an offence or whether the object of the concerted action has to be illegal.
We may think the red teams act in bad faith, but they will just see it as business in areas of mutual interest. Maybe the Liverpool shitstorm would blow open any conspiracy, but I'm not sure it will ever see the light of day.
 
BillyShears said:
I've noticed that being on Bluemoon (this thread in particular) people feed each others' conspiracy theories to the point where in my opinion you lose sight a little bit of the reality of the situation. Go back to Soriano's interview after the 2 year ban was announced. He talked about having friends at UEFA. City's issues aren't going to be with the governing bodies moving forward (I'd argue even this entire Football Leaks nonsense wasn't pushed by UEFA), City's issues are with their rivals pushing for things and with the media trying to smear them.

As I say, I think that we'll have a rep on the ECA very soon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what my opinion is for now.
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You may be right, but by talking about having friends 'at' UEFA rather than calling UEFA friendly, he is pretty much confirming we have enemies there.
 
KS55 said:
Yes, a good definition.
Leads us back to the old legal argument as to whether conspiracy can stand alone as an offence or whether the object of the concerted action has to be illegal.
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It might not pass the threshold for a criminal conspiracy (although I certainly wouldn’t rule that out) but I would say they were still conspiring, based on the framework you provided.
 
projectriver said:
Surprised anyone thinks this is remotely controversial. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And that cuts both ways - for City and UEFA.
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Question is whether G14 see it that way. I dont think they do: blinded, inter alia, by fear of losing income and by racial hatred. They still want to crush us.
 
I think there were a few rumours earlier in the thread that the club were looking at taking legal action against Der Spiegel.

I'm 95% sure something is happening in this regard. Over the weekend, I was chatting to a colleague who works for a major publication here in Germany and he mentioned that he'd been warned to be very careful when writing any story based on the latest Der Spiegel fuckwhittery.
 
KS55 said:
Question is whether G14 see it that way. I dont think they do: blinded, inter alia, by fear of losing income and by racial hatred. They still want to crush us.
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quite so, but they all have different stakes in the game and come wanting the CL trophy they're all posturing themselves. We're clearly seeing it being a combination of the American PL clubs trying to kill our model, Barca and Real for political reasons and Bayern because they hate Pep snubbing their idealism for us and because they know they have conquered their domestic market through politics and make other clubs subservient to them and don't want their model challenged by upstart clubs trying a different model. They each have their own pressure points and own interests which don't always align and it's about us weaving our way in and putting key enemies on the back foot so we can create our own position alongside those we have little to no issue with.
 
BillyShears said:
I've noticed that being on Bluemoon (this thread in particular) people feed each others' conspiracy theories to the point where in my opinion you lose sight a little bit of the reality of the situation. Go back to Soriano's interview after the 2 year ban was announced. He talked about having friends at UEFA. City's issues aren't going to be with the governing bodies moving forward (I'd argue even this entire Football Leaks nonsense wasn't pushed by UEFA), City's issues are with their rivals pushing for things and with the media trying to smear them.

As I say, I think that we'll have a rep on the ECA very soon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what my opinion is for now.
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Ric Parry not being at Uefa any more will also go a long way to solving a few of the problems we had behind the scenes at UEFA.

Him and his mate on the Liverpool board will be looking over their shoulders for a good while to come.
 
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