Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
Thanks for that - good to see more evidence of the shit job the Remainer led government did between 2016-2019 & the costs to the UK quantified
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That deal was signed by Boris (king of brexit). A deal agreed in a timescale that he controlled - he could have ripped it up and started again but we all know he would have done nothing better and he likes doing things at the 11th hour where there is no time for scrutiny. It is 100% his WA, the deal he sold to the nation as 'oven ready' - 'a great deal', he said it a hundred times on the election campaign so you cant disown it now! Unless you accept he was lying just to get elected.

Brexit will always be a shit deal - spin it how you want - it will be a shit WA followed by a shit trade deal or no deal which is also shit. Remainers with the support of the brexit ultras only ever delayed it everything else has been done at the hands of leavers.

Leavers have to own it. None of this 'should have been different' bollocks. It was always going to be shit and the likes of IDS have to own it.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Can I just admit to really liking James O’Brien. A voice of reason compassion and sanity in a world gone stark staring mad. You might not agree with his politics but the names he is called on here are way over the top.
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That is your perogative of course - as is mine to be of the opinion that he is a supercilious and self serving twat

You will have your reasons for his behaviour on his programme to lead you to holding him in high regard and I respect your right to use them to derive your opinion.

I hold him in especially low regard because he blatantly uses his job - supposedly presenting for a station that projects its brand to be.....

'Leading Britain's conversation "

To indulge himself in his self-obsessive preening and sneering at anyone that is not on message

He abuses the intellect that he has - along with the power of control switches - to talk over people and ensure his voice and opinions dominate any and every supposed conversation.

He starts his shows with a sermon of the day to ensure his flock understand what the subject of the day is and tells his flock what they should think and say

In short he is an utterly ignorant fucker
 
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mcfc1632 said:
That is your perogative of course - as is mine to be of the opinion that he is a supercilious and self serving twat

You will have your reasons for his behaviour on his programme to lead you to holding him in high regard and I respect your right to use them to derive your opinion.

I hold him in especially low regard because he blatantly uses his job - supposedly presenting for a station that projects its brand to be.....

'Leading Britain's conversation "

To indulge himself in his self-obsessive preening and sneering at anyone that is not on message

He abuses the intellect that he has - along with the power of control switches - to talk over people and ensure his voice and opinuons dominate any and every supposed conversation.

He starts his shows with a sermon of the day to ensure his flock understand what the subject of the day is and tells his flock what they should think and say

In short he is an utterly ignorant fucker
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But you still haven’t told me why you take exception to the fact he is pouring scorn on IDS for voting for the WA, voting against the proper scrutiny of the detail, and then a year later bemoaning the fact that he and they have missed something in the detail. I get that you don’t like him but I probably have an advantage over you as I do listen to him regularly and I am taking a wild and crazy guess that you don’t.

In this case, IDS is a fucking clown and your support for him does you no favours. The WA is Brexit. It’s what parliament voted for. It’s what these bastards campaigned on, so isn’t it fair to link anyone saying the WA is shit to saying Brexit is shit?
 
meltonblue said:
I’m fine with the sentiment of people like Smith or Johnson still not being happy with the WA. If that’s the case though, then don’t go spouting off about it being “oven ready”. Say the concerns at the time, not a year down the line when those concerns were all mentioned by others at the time anyway.
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Now that I agree with

I can only think that there was discussion at the time to either:

1. sack the WA off and deal with the implications of starting afresh, very unattractive and the EU would have ensured we were still negotiating as the next GE came about or

2. progress leaving and then use the big majority to unpick, if possible, the main impediments - or if that proved too difficult - consider the primary legislation required to repeal the WA

A sort of modern day perfidious albion

At least I hope that someone - like Cummings - was doing that level of strategic thinking and it is not just Johnson flying a kite ffs
 
Saddleworth2 said:
But you still haven’t told me why you take exception to the fact he is pouring scorn on IDS for voting for the WA, voting against the proper scrutiny of the detail, and then a year later bemoaning the fact that he and they have missed something in the detail. I get that you don’t like him but I probably have an advantage over you as I do listen to him regularly and I am taking a wild and crazy guess that you don’t.

In this case, IDS is a fucking clown and your support for him does you no favours. The WA is Brexit. It’s what parliament voted for. It’s what these bastards campaigned on, so isn’t it fair to link anyone saying the WA is shit to saying Brexit is shit?
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I think what we have seen from IDS is where the debate will go for brexiteers. It will be the fault of May / Robbins and the EU for as long as they can get away with it.

The facts are:-

May resigned in May 2019.
Boris PM in July at which point he had 6 months + the ability for an extension or a no deal if he wanted.
October WA introduced - Boris says:-

This new deal allows the UK - whole and entire - to leave the EU on October 31st in accordance with the referendum while simultaneously looking forward to a new partnership based on the closest ties of friendship and co-operation.

And I pay tribute to our European friends for escaping the prison of existing positions and showing the vision to be flexible by re-opening the Withdrawal Agreement and thereby addressing the deeply felt concerns of many in this House.

And one of my most important jobs is to express those concerns to our European friends.

I shall continue to listen to all Honourable Members throughout the debate today, to meet with anyone on any side and to welcome the scrutiny the House will bring to bear if - as I hope – we proceed to consider the Withdrawal Agreement Bill next week.

Today this House has an historic opportunity to show the same breadth of vision as our European neighbours.
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He then shuts down the debate after losing some votes and goes for a GE based on his deal - that he bangs on about being great endlessly.

It doesn't pass until 22nd December by which time he has an 80 seat majority.

All of it is on him and the tories that backed him. You cant blame May who was 6 months out of the job when it passed..
 
Gaudion M said:
I think what we have seen from IDS is where the debate will go for brexiteers. It will be the fault of May / Robbins and the EU for as long as they can get away with it.

The facts are:-

May resigned in May 2019.
Boris PM in July at which point he had 6 months + the ability for an extension or a no deal if he wanted.
October WA introduced - Boris says:-



He then shuts down the debate after losing some votes and goes for a GE based on his deal - that he bangs on about being great endlessly.

It doesn't pass until 22nd December by which time he has an 80 seat majority.

All of it is on him and the tories that backed him. You cant blame May who was 6 months out of the job when it passed..
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That is what’s known as an inconvenient truth I believe.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
All getting a bit fractious today gents. Try yoga or meditation, maybe even an afternoon nap. You are just winding yourselves up into having little tantrums again and you'll just end up with everyone laughing at you and the thread getting pulled again. Chill, and play nice.
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Fine advice - I tried a few holes of golf earlier

I recommend that as well - so long as you play well, otherwise.....
 
From Frances Coppola on Twitter, it amused me.

1: "Britain will rule. All other countries will follow our lead."
2: "So they don't want us to rule? They will give in. We hold all the cards."
3: "If they don't give in we'll walk away and they'll be sorry."
4: "WE WON!"
5: "ARRGH WHAT DID WE JUST SIGN?"
6. (addressed to those who warned that the "Britain rules" approach wouldn't work) "YOU TRAITORS, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT"
7. "Ooh look, there are some other countries over there. Let's get out of this agreement and rule them instead."
<return to 1>
 
Ian Duncan Smith is a fucking halfwit and a massive ****.

Labour could have walked the last election if it had backed than BREXIT and we would have had a Govt. that was internationalist rather isolationist and one that could have dealt with the EU because of its internationalist stance instead of being mired in little Englander nationalistic hubris.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Can I just admit to really liking James O’Brien. A voice of reason compassion and sanity in a world gone stark staring mad. You might not agree with his politics but the names he is called on here are way over the top.
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The best bit of O'Brien was the day after the GE result, his whining,with a face
like boiled shite, made my day, for sure.
Never bothered since.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The best bit of O'Brien was the day after the GE result, his whining,with a face
like boiled shite, made my day, for sure.
Never bothered since.
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I listened the day after the election and it was great radio. He spoke to countless people who, for their own reasons, didn’t vote for Labour. Including people on production lines who were pro-Brexit but generally anti-Tory and those who had been victims or lived in areas which had experienced IRA bombs

I’m not his spokesman but there was no wining. Merely trying to understand others

But let’s put reality to one side and pretend it was 3 hours of a grown man crying. Maybe it was justified? He lost, the Tories won. But have we won? The highest CV death toll in Europe and a WA that the people who voted for it aren’t happy with - to the victors for the spoils.....
 
'kinnell - so Brexit will make one county in England only accessible to hauliers for a 24 hour period on acquisition of a permit - " papers, I vant to see your papers" - our "freedom" actually looks like restriction and control taken back is worthless

 
bluethrunthru said:
'kinnell - so Brexit will make one county in England only accessible to hauliers for a 24 hour period on acquisition of a permit - " papers, I vant to see your papers" - our "freedom" actually looks like restriction and control taken back is worthless

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I wonder if the argument will be "whilst there's more red tape, at least it's our red tape".
 
Zuriblue said:
It'll be the same as the Trumpletons in the States. "We won, we're owning the libs."

Just look at the leavers upthread. They're still crowing like Devon rags.
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I fear you might be right. Whilst I don't agree with it, I get the 'free from the EU argument'. However the benefits of this new perceived self-determination are rendered pointless if it's self-harming, and given we've had 40 years of being intertwined was always going to be the case. If people genuinely think that's a price worth paying, then fair enough. I just haven't really heard that, and instead it's more about the satisfaction gleaned from pissing on Bob Geldof's chips. Any promises on trade, infrastructure etc that were sold as benefits have so far been shown to be patently false.
 
bluethrunthru said:
'kinnell - so Brexit will make one county in England only accessible to hauliers for a 24 hour period on acquisition of a permit - " papers, I vant to see your papers" - our "freedom" actually looks like restriction and control taken back is worthless

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So as well as GB/NI border checks we’re going to have Kent / Sussex and Kent / London border checks. Can we at least have some border checks between Liverpool and Manchester to keep the dippers out?
 
mcfc1632 said:
...
2. progress leaving and then use the big majority to unpick, if possible, the main impediments - or if that proved too difficult - consider the primary legislation required to repeal the WA

A sort of modern day perfidious albion
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You think it’s a good look for a country that’s trying to establish new relationships with other countries to renege on or weasel out of signed international deals?

I can see loads of countries queuing up to set up a great deal with such a trustworthy partner!

Do you actually think through any of the piffle that you write?
 
Blue Hefner said:
I listened the day after the election and it was great radio. He spoke to countless people who, for their own reasons, didn’t vote for Labour. Including people on production lines who were pro-Brexit but generally anti-Tory and those who had been victims or lived in areas which had experienced IRA bombs

I’m not his spokesman but there was no wining. Merely trying to understand others

But let’s put reality to one side and pretend it was 3 hours of a grown man crying. Maybe it was justified? He lost, the Tories won. But have we won? The highest CV death toll in Europe and a WA that the people who voted for it aren’t happy with - to the victors for the spoils.....
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he rarely whines. He sets out what he thinks using logic and facts. Its just a shame our government politicians don't do the same.
 
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