Another new Brexit thread

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kevin horlocks wand said:
no I think you are missing the point.

we are not going to break law. We are seeking legally to go back on our agreement with the eu , which has an affect in our standing in the world and our place on the world stage.

that is a perfectly fair criticism.
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Yes we are, we are looking to break international law by implementing our own law. You can’t invoke provisions of internal
law as justification for failing to perform a treaty.

We aren’t breaking our own law by doing it, we are breaking our own ministerial code though and no lawyer should be advising the implementation of it though as they know it’s in breach of international law. That then becomes an issue of ethics as well though I agree.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
sorry been fishing, this will help you..

“Yes this does break international law in a very specific and limited way. We are taking the power to disapply the EU law concept of direct effect required by Article 4 in a certain, very tightly-defined circumstance.

There are clear precedents for the UK and other countries needing to consider their international obligations as circumstances change. I would say to honourable members here, many of whom would have been in this house when we passed the Finance Act 2013, which contained an example of treaty override, it contains provisions that expressly disapply international tax treaties to the extent that these conflict with the general anti-abuse rule.

We are determined to ensure we are delivering on the agreement we have in the protocol and our leading priority is to do that through the negotiations and through the joint committee work. The clauses that will be in the bill tomorrow are specifically there for should that fail, ensuring we’re able to deliver on our commitments to the people of Northern Ireland.”
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The reason this doesn’t hold water and why it’s getting so much criticism is not just around the public admittance of breaching international law but also that circumstances haven’t changed since the treaty was signed. He hasn’t said, despite being asked several times, where that legal advice has come from. We can see it clearly didn’t come from Jones though!
 
blueinsa said:
Governments and countries not allowed to change minds now?

That wasn't the opinion last year was it?

Parliament is sovereign....i have heard that before on here and they can vote on and change whatever the fuck they like, again, something that was said so many times not so long ago.

It upsetting the EU will be of little to no consequence to it and no one is being charged, hauled up before the Hague or sent to prison over it.

It is a negotiating tactic that much is clear. It hasn't happened as of yet, just a threat.

If and when it does happen we can probably discuss it but as above, no one will stop the government from doing it.

Chip paper within a few weeks.

Its classic brexit though i will admit to that. The WA no remainer wanted and every brexit supporter cheered on and here we are with a threat to rip it up and remainers are up in arms and brexit voters couldn't give a fuck. The same with the way Sovereign parliament nehaved last year when it looked like it was about to thwart brexit.
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Seriously, if nothing about Brexit matters to you, why are you here?
 
Vic said:
Seriously, if nothing about Brexit matters to you, why are you here?
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It matters a great deal VIc.

Its why i voted the way i did and since the day after the vote, i've argued with those who wanted to ignore the result of the ref and remain.

I know you don't want me on here, or anyone with a similar opinion to me. The need for a remain echo chamber on this and other threads like it from some has been evident for years.

If its all the same to you though i will stick around and post?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
yeah and Jeremy had a magic power that meant a labour govt could stop Covid in the uk so that all those things on your list could now be in place .
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Under a Labour Government we wouldn't have been

43000 nurses short
10000 doctors short
17000 beds short
106000 back office staff short
the lowest number of ICU beds per capita in Europe
the lowest number of ventilators per capita in Europe
the most out of date PPE / Wrong type of PPE in Europe



Announcing the closure of 10 hospitals and walk in centres in February whilst the lying American PM went away on holiday and missed 5/6 crucial meetings

we also wouldn't have outsourced the management of the UK's PPE supplies .. first to an American subsidiary of a parcel company ,,, and when they realised the shitstorm they'd entered we sold it to a company based in Paris,

So yes ... Labour probably could've handled it better... because they would've paid attention to the Cygnus report and the fact that we were told in NOVEMBER this was coming.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
sorry been fishing, this will help you..

“Yes this does break international law in a very specific and limited way. We are taking the power to disapply the EU law concept of direct effect required by Article 4 in a certain, very tightly-defined circumstance.

There are clear precedents for the UK and other countries needing to consider their international obligations as circumstances change. I would say to honourable members here, many of whom would have been in this house when we passed the Finance Act 2013, which contained an example of treaty override, it contains provisions that expressly disapply international tax treaties to the extent that these conflict with the general anti-abuse rule.

We are determined to ensure we are delivering on the agreement we have in the protocol and our leading priority is to do that through the negotiations and through the joint committee work. The clauses that will be in the bill tomorrow are specifically there for should that fail, ensuring we’re able to deliver on our commitments to the people of Northern Ireland.”
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There is provision to unilaterally change treaties if ‘unforeseen events occur’, for example the pandemic and suspension of freedom of movement, or Force majeure.

However, the NI protocols were specifically designed to take into account the possibility of no deal and in that event protect, the peace process and avoid a hard land border in Ireland. In short, events that were entirely foreseen and catered for.

To try and unilaterally change the NI protocols when, to use the same language as the NI Secretary, ‘circumstances have not changed’ will not be accepted by Dublin principally and the EU in general.

Usually when a criminal admits to a crime you tend to be sceptical of his justification for doing so.
 
BobKowalski said:
There is provision to unilaterally change treaties if ‘unforeseen events occur’, for example the pandemic and suspension of freedom of movement, or Force majeure.

However, the NI protocols were specifically designed to take into account the possibility of no deal and in that event protect, the peace process and avoid a hard land border in Ireland. In short, events that were entirely foreseen and catered for.

To try and unilaterally change the NI protocols when, to use the same language as the NI Secretary, ‘circumstances have not changed’ will not be accepted by Dublin principally and the EU in general.

Usually when a criminal admits to a crime you tend to be sceptical of his justification for doing so.
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I am not going to defend boris , he is a clown

unfortunately for you I don’t think it will change brexit , or the deal we get.

however it does reinforce that we have a titwank in charge of the country
 
Osbourne has tweeted

‘My 2013 Finance Act is being cited today as an example of breaking international law. To avoid any confusion: it created a general anti-tax avoidance rule that could override double tax treaties, but all parties to these treaties accept such rules - and the OECD backs them’
 
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