It's Quiet thread 14 - 'do one' edition

[oddfellows]

What we urgently need is an orthodox right-sided central defender - Koulibaly is a right-footer who consistently plays on the left.

£70m plus for another suck it and see is a terrible strategy - it was the same last summer going after Maguire who also plays on the left.

Thank fuck we didn't pay that either.

It's not rocket science - sign players for the positions they already play and we need.

How much Javi Martinez for a low price couple is season stop gap.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I get what your saying but I think you will be surprised by Ake, Laporte back on top of his game will be something else to behold and Denayer is so much better than people give him credit for.

Laporte, Ake, stones, denayer Plus the quality kids coming through would be enough.

Laporte will take that Kompany role up - maturing into it this year with Ake who is a lot more vocal than Kompany ever was bossing the line I think.

I don’t think the back line looks too back now, without looking for perfection it’s a solid unit now that will do.

Let’s not forget that Kompany, great as he was had some frailty and had the comfort of De Jong, then Fernandinho bossing the defensive midfield, THAT is where we feel a little lightweight now for me.

Ake & Denayer are not good enough aerially to have both in a balanced squad imo.

I think Ake is a better defender on the ground, than anyone at the club & 'reads the game' the way Pep's son is rumoured to do. Not impossible he could be asked to play out of position at rcb imo. Just hope he gets off to a good start with no City style calamity to ruin his confidence.

 

[decmancity]

Case in point. Skriniar is a fucking robot and Inter have been open to selling him for two years now. He is shite.

Buy a proper, energetic midfielder.

I'd even look again at Denayer for centre-back, we still have an option on him. He's right footed, can also play on the left side of a two, very good in the air and homegrown.

Far too many people decided to write him off after he was sent for hot-dogs playing against Wales when he got turned for the goal at the Euros.

Probably get him for £40m like Ake plus our sell-on discount.

Would him booting people in the street not perhaps be a big mark against his name? (not saying all our players are saints!)

I think Denayer really has turned it around though and Lyon have already sold off Marcal and Depay is rumoured to leave as is Aouar so they are open to a bit of a fire sale.

 

[Ajm1985]

I thought the idea was to get a mobile, strong CB with leadership qualities to complement what we have, while providing what we are missing? Stones is a good back up (he needs to get his shit together), Ake is a great buy, Otamendi needs to go.

We aren't going to defend significantly deeper, so unless we sign someone who fits the bill at CB, we will be exposed as we were last year.

 

[City Raider]

Ability is one thing but do they produce every week? Mentality is such a big factor with top pros. I’ve not seen enough of KK but the view on here seems to be he’s a bit in and out. For the fee we’re talking about, upping it for the big games won’t cut it. The prem is relentless.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Every signing is a roll of the dice. No guarantee any of them will stay fit and in form.

Stones has had a bad run with injuries but none are the type that should slow him down long term - he needs to get his head down and he can come good. Mendy on the other hand has had a similar run and has bolloxed his knee. I'd put money on Stones having the better career going forward.

You may be right, but imo City's & Pep's biggest problem is 'making do' in defence.

We would not accept a Stones or Otamendi equivalent at striker, if Aguero had gone.

 

[The slaughtered lamb]

Ake & Denayer are not good enough aerially to have both in a balanced squad imo.

I think Ake is a better defender on the ground, than anyone at the club & 'reads the game' the way Pep's son is rumoured to do. Not impossible he could be asked to play out of position at rcb imo. Just hope he gets off to a good start with no City style calamity to ruin his confidence.

I’m feeling more positive about the Ake signing the nearer the season gets. Don’t know if it’s wishful thinking with not signing another CB but with the education he’s had so far he could be made for us.

 

[waspish]

What have Upamecano or De Ligt proved or won more to be considered better? They are potential still at this stage. Stones was still carrying a muscle issue towards the end of the restart, hence why he was on the bench and not starting.

If Stones was a free transfer this summer you would have a queue of elite clubs rocking up, even now. His wages are a huge factor.

I'd argue his first two seasons under Pep were excellent until he fractured his cheekbone playing for England.

Stones only problem is his injuries for me he is top class defender you see it when he has a run of games he Is pure class.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You may be right, but imo City's & Pep's biggest problem is 'making do' in defence.

We would not accept a Stones or Otamendi equivalent at striker, if Aguero had gone.

Agree that we have struggled with quality across the back 4 for a long time. But what I cant stand is the buy buy buy approach. When we buy a player its a 5 year deal on top wages - the kind only 5 or 10 clubs would be able to match. So when they dont turn out to be good we are stuck with them unless we pay them off. I'd rather go a season with Tosin as 4th choice than end up with 5 or 6 top earning older CBs - further down the road they get even older and injured and we can very quickly turn into a squad of dead wood.

We have Ake who I really like, him and Laporte could be the two. We should just go with it and go into the market again next year if it doesn't work out - by that time the options and prices will be different and possibly better.

 

[Steve Coppell’s 33 Days]

At the start of the window TB said, in a rare interview, that it would be difficult to get people in because of a number of factors one being the economic climate caused by Covid. He particularly pointed out that we needed to sell before we could buy as we are near our quota of NHG players. City have more NHG players than almost any club in Europe.

We made two quick signings and we will see how they work out. Remember that all over our training complex it says that we don’t want a team of superstars. The cleverest signings are made by strong consideration to analytics backed up by personality profiles and old school scouting. If you have a lot of money well that certainly helps but it’s not everything.

Generally speaking the best analytics department is at Liverpool when they’re not allegedly hacking us that is! A lot of credit should go to these guys rather than just Klopp. At the lower level Brentford and AZ in the Netherlands are the best.

If we just want big name signings we will end up like United season before last. I think they’ve unfortunately learned from their errors now.

Khaldoon says we normally target players in the ages 20-25 rather than the finished article but will make the odd exception.

So it’s a complicated process not least because nobody has any idea what the market rate for a player should be.

With KK he’s obviously been identified as the best fit but then you have to deal with Napoli. There is a dearth of good centre halves world wide. Upamecano would have been my choice for the last year or so but perhaps City feel that we need more of a leader.

Not going for Timo Werner I’ll never understand. Watch him for Chelsea next season.

Anyway I digress. The main reason is getting players out. It’s a domino affect. We will have our targets lined up but we have to hope other clubs get moving and the chain doesn’t break. 4 weeks is enough and probably 2 weeks is enough once things get moving.

Oh and then there’s Messi.....

Fully understand all that.

However, the process of player recruitment identification through to deal completion does appear a relative weakness at least to those who pay an interest in transfer “gossip”. Not Rags level of relative weakness but still a gap. All other things equal TB wouldn’t be here still and we’d have moved onto someone a little closer to their playing days. That said I recognise Soriano, Pep and Khaldoon have faith in his abilities and the whole dynamic. There’s a big intangible value to that.

In some ways I see this relative weakness mirrored in the EDS & some of the issues they’ve created for themselves in terms of player pathways and the loan system for them. That’s now under new management of course as are the U18s but things haven’t evolved as perhaps I’d have expected and Wilcox is still relatively fresh to his role. Maybe that’ll improve but the jury’s out still.

It seems the areas of club competence are things like the CFG development strategy and the 10 strong stable of clubs and of course the women’s team. Red Bull has 4. I’d not be surprised if in the fullness of time there is a move into other sports ownership. We’ve the core capabilities and the opportunities for reciprocal sharing of best practice in player conditioning would be massive and build the competence across all sporting bases.

I can also see the women’s football group evolving too. We have MCWFC and Melbourne City Women too so might expect us picking up a Japanese, US and other European club along the way.

Don’t think perfection will ever exist in any football group. That said I’d like the club to at least have senior player recruitment on the radar to address for improvement. I’ve got ideas and should they wish to consult with me - for a fee - they are welcome. ;-)

 

[The slaughtered lamb]

Case in point. Skriniar is a fucking robot and Inter have been open to selling him for two years now. He is shite.

Buy a proper, energetic midfielder.

I'd even look again at Denayer for centre-back, we still have an option on him. He's right footed, can also play on the left side of a two, very good in the air and homegrown.

Far too many people decided to write him off after he was sent for hot-dogs playing against Wales when he got turned for the goal at the Euros.

Probably get him for £40m like Ake plus our sell-on discount.

I wonder if we’d consider moving Rodri to CB and signing that energetic midfielder you speak of? I think he played there season before last at Crystal Palace and did a decent job - good footballer, big enough, just a bit slow on the turn.

I doubt Pep would consider it and to be fair, when you start talking about positional changes for a player it’s an admission of failure. But I would say the solution at CB could be in plain sight, as is our need for that midfielder.

 

[Del_Bosque]

Worrying we haven’t been linked with a left back very strongly

would love to see us get Alaba

would be able to play midfield as well

don’t think we’ll get him though

can see us making a late panic move for Danny Rose

 

[Neville Kneville]

Agree that we have struggled with quality across the back 4 for a long time. But what I cant stand is the buy buy buy approach. When we buy a player its a 5 year deal on top wages - the kind only 5 or 10 clubs would be able to match. So when they dont turn out to be good we are stuck with them unless we pay them off. I'd rather go a season with Tosin as 4th choice than end up with 5 or 6 top earning older CBs - further down the road they get even older and injured and we can very quickly turn into a squad of dead wood.

We have Ake who I really like, him and Laporte could be the two. We should just go with it and go into the market again next year if it doesn't work out - by that time the options and prices will be different and possibly better.

Imo, if we think Tosin is any good, he should be introduced as 5th choice during the season, then if he really is good, we sell off one of the 4 & use him. Sandler looks better to me but he's not club trained.

 

[waspish]

Worrying we haven’t been linked with a left back very strongly

would love to see us get Alaba

would be able to play midfield as well

don’t think we’ll get him though

can see us making a late panic move for Danny Rose

We don’t need a left back we have 3

 

[OrigamiNinja]

There's still a lot of buying and selling to do for all teams, Chelsea are probably ahead of us, every other team probably behind us in being set for next season. It'll be fine.Regardless your original point that funds for a centre back were spent on Ake has no foundation as we are obviously still looking at around £65-70 mill budget as we always have been.

It stands because I want us to sign our number 1 CB target, no matter the cost. Don't identify him, chase him all summer, only to then penny-pinch for the sake of a few £m. If we spent £40m on Ake and still have £70m available for another, that's a £110m budget (not suggesting we pay £110m for him) that could have been used to secure Koulibaly (or next best) but also secure him a month ago.

In my opinion, buy your 1st choice 1st and then see what funds you have remaining for the back up. Instead we keep throwing these £40m Hail Marys on bang-average/back up players that we hope and pray can step up to the mark. Im sure someone intelligent once said something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[cjn]

I'm not sure what the Stones chat is all about. He was always going to stick around once Garcia said he wasn't renewing. Is anyone even advocating that we sell him? Giving him another go this year is the smart and obvious thing to do.

That said, the idea of giving him another contract to protect our investment is actually absurd, we definitely, definitely should not do that. Even is he's the best centerback in the world this season there's no one outbidding us on contract terms next summer when he has a year left. There's no risk at all in letting him play on the current deal.

Lastly though, we still need to sign another centerback, even if it isn't Koulibaly. "Do we even have any scouts" is an overused trope on here, but really, we have 60 or 70 million to spend, and the only centerbacks in the world we can find worth pursuing is either a guy who plays for Napoli or a 27 year old with one season of top level experience and a 70m release clause? This is a year after the only one we could find was Harry Maguire. This is a crazy problem to have.

 

[Chi-town blues]

Is there a back clause on Denayer ?

 

[OrigamiNinja]

I'm not sure what the Stones chat is all about. He was always going to stick around once Garcia said he wasn't renewing. Is anyone even advocating that we sell him? Giving him another go this year is the smart and obvious thing to do.

That said, the idea of giving him another contract to protect our investment is actually absurd, we definitely, definitely should not do that. Even is he's the best centerback in the world this season there's no one outbidding us on contract terms next summer when he has a year left. There's no risk at all in letting him play on the current deal.

Lastly though, we still need to sign another centerback, even if it isn't Koulibaly. "Do we even have any scouts" is an overused trope on here, but really, we have 60 or 70 million to spend, and the only centerbacks in the world we can find worth pursuing is either a guy who plays for Napoli or a 27 year old with one season of top level experience and a 70m release clause? This is a year after the only one we could find was Harry Maguire. This is a crazy problem to have.

Agreed.

The guy cost us £50m and is probably on £100k+ pw. We are 4 years down the line and he has done nothing to repay any of it. We are not protecting any investment by offering him a new deal, we are simply throwing away good money after bad. Selling him for £20m now and saving £5m+ per annum on his wages, is far more preferable to extending his contract.

 

[jimbopm]

Agreed.

The guy cost us £50m and is probably on £100k+ pw. We are 4 years down the line and he has done nothing to repay any of it. We are not protecting any investment by offering him a new deal, we are simply throwing away good money after bad. Selling him for £20m now and saving £5m+ per annum on his wages, is far more preferably to extending his contract.

 

[LongsightM13]

View attachment 2207

To be fair he was only covering for his own catastrophic fuck up in twatting the ball against Ederson’s head when he was caught in a blind panic after losing his man