Club Philosophy vs Club Identity...

[Bigga]

Now, I don’t assume they are the same thing and after watching the Women’s game, it got finally me confronting the simmering thoughts that have been around in the last few weeks.

Now, before I start, I want to make it clear this is not an anti-CFG rant, but a discussion on what the point is.

I understand the desire to play ‘the beautiful game’ and much of that is a desire we all want but, clearly, there are issues in the delivery of such a desire. My thoughts first started activating around the NYCFC results in the last couple of weeks and, now, the City Women team. It occurred to me that this ‘philosophy’ can only work when a club has the manager or players to enact it; which is why the teams mentioned are struggling.

With that said, if the club do not have the ‘right’ players, the ‘right’ manager is going to struggle and vice versa.

I know both iterations have changed over the years and will change again, but I feel CFG may have complicated the matter further by the conjoining of different clubs with different ethos and different footballing identity than ours. Or maybe these subjects are organic in their own right?

All I feel is that crowbarring a manager into a ‘philosophy’ does not work well, just because it works for the intended original target. That is also why I felt Nick Cushing’s City Women team struggled with the footballing philosophy and why it was abandoned through quite a lot of his winning tenure.

Torrent was the right man for this philosophy at NYCFC, but he didn’t quite have the team of players to implement the ideas. I feel Gareth Taylor may suffer a similar fate with City Women if he’s not allowed to veer out of binds of the CFG philosophy.

Our club’s identity is whatever we make it as fans and I choose to believe we’re fooking fighters or have become so, as our motto says and it’s the glorious meeting of both philosophy and identity that creates the special moments we’ve been lucky to see!

I guess I’m just wondering if CFG should allow the managers to work within their own remit to move the respective teams forward and, ultimately, garner the success the CFG project obviously crave.

Anyway, just thinking out aloud and wondering if there are any thoughts on it?

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Bloody hell way too deep with a hangover (goes back to the top 100 albums thread)

 

[Bigga]

Bloody hell way too deep with a hangover (goes back to the top 100 albums thread)

:(

LOL!

 

[bluealf]

I can understand it with the youth teams, as you want them learning the type of football they will be required to perform if they make it.

Not sure about the other teams though, I am not really interested in the other men's teams as they are not Manchester City, I watch the woman play as they are MCFC but let's face the truth they are not going to pass the ball about like they are in the prem, they have the skill level of lower league football overall, the odd player in certain situations can show true football skills and I am not saying anything to misogynistic as I don't mind watching them.

I think that they should be able to play to what they feel they are comfortable with, in some ways the long boot is actually against them anyway.

Unsure about the manager but it isn't my decision on who gets the gig but in some ways, I wouldn't want to see them put a guy in charge and then if he is doing well move him to NYC and then on and on etc.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I’ll be honest, I never have and never will watch any games from any other clubs in the CFG. And I don’t and probably never will watch the Women’s team.

I don’t look out for their scores, don’t care how they do, don’t care how they play. I don’t feel like they are linked to Manchester City FC at all.

I used to watch the youth team but realised that having a winning/successful youth team is not important. A team can win two successive FA Youth Cups but not have a single individual make it into the first team (which is actually what is important).

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Where have you been? its all part of the holistic approach, remember?

 

[Sir peace frog]

I can understand it with the youth teams, as you want them learning the type of football they will be required to perform if they make it.

Not sure about the other teams though, I am not really interested in the other men's teams as they are not Manchester City, I watch the woman play as they are MCFC but let's face the truth they are not going to pass the ball about like they are in the prem, they have the skill level of lower league football overall, the odd player in certain situations can show true football skills and I am not saying anything to misogynistic as I don't mind watching them.

I think that they should be able to play to what they feel they are comfortable with, in some ways the long boot is actually against them anyway.

Unsure about the manager but it isn't my decision on who gets the gig but in some ways, I wouldn't want to see them put a guy in charge and then if he is doing well move him to NYC and then on and on etc.

womans football quality of lower leagues ?, woman's football gets over hyped ,stick the womans team in the 4th division they wouldn't get a point, not sure they would score a goal.

 

[manclad]

womans football quality of lower leagues ?, woman's football gets over hyped ,stick the womans team in the 4th division they wouldn't get a point, not sure they would score a goal.

When was the last time that it was known as the 4th Division. Has it been League Two for about 20 years now.
BTW I agree with you though PF. As far as I am concerned Bolton Wanderers are now playing football in Division 4.

 

[mccity]

Torrent was doing really well at NYCFC after a tough start. They were looking great before he left, which was due to issues higher up. They were definitely going to have been stronger had he stayed. They 100% tried to play the way Pep does. They played their way through teams with great build up and we're majorly vulnerable on the counter, but they made it work thanks largely to players like Moralez and Heber.

Playing the same way throughout generally tends towards success if the coaching is right. Imagine if in 16/17 Guardiola changed the way we played for a few extra points? We may have achieved much less than we did the following two seasons because we'd have lacked the know-how to play a specific way (like Mourinho sides suffer from).

As with NYCFC at the moment with Delia, the women's team with Taylor, and whatever other team in the CFG (men's, women's, or academy) the philosophy itself isn't the issue, but the implementation. You need good coaches that coach the right kind of way and are actually skilled enough to get the players both playing that way and to motivate the players to make it work. Delia does not manage the "right way" and Taylor is unknown in coaching ability despite having the right ideas.

Having the wrong style of player hurts too, but that's more down to recruitment. And with good coaching and time you can generally get the players to be competent, which works fine in weaker leagues like the women's and MLS.


With regards to identity you NEED to see the bigger picture. Each of these clubs may have its own identity but each of these clubs are part of the CFG. And importantly they are all branded under the CFG brand. So when casual US fan #23453 sees a CFG team on the TV they're expecting to see swashbuckling and great technical football. And that future might not seem obvious now, but if these clubs stick at it for the next 10-20 years, which is how far ahead ADUG are planning almost certainly, then it makes far more sense. If they keep at it for long enough then it will work, and it will be part of these club's identities.

It's a short term sacrifice for an incredibly huge long term gain. You might not think it's the right way to go and that's fair but the CFG has to push these things in this way if it wants the results they desire in the long term furture.

 

[Nick L]

I feel we need to create an alliance between us and Racing Club de Avellaneda top Argentina club with a conveyer belt of talent - L Martinez etcetc