Rise in violence towards UK police

bluethrunthru said:
Kris' contribution is interesting but yeah I go along with this - the minute you put the Police in just cars and vans the link to local populations was over. When housing developments were built the Police lived on them.

My Dad was brought up on Langley - two doors down was "the Police House" where a bobby and his family lived with a younger bobby as a lodger and added on the side was a small office - effectively a community Police station where people could pop in and speak to them - "share intelligence" as its known nowadays. All a bit Heartbeat I know and impossible now - they'd have their tyres slashed and windows put in every night - but taking the Police out of the community did for it.

The force we would need nowadays .....no fucker would pay for it. People cheered from the side lines as govt policy cut 21k officers ( note they don't ever mention how many back office staff have been removed btw? ) saying austerity was needed and we were all in this together but have continually wrung their hands as the operational Policing has been shown to suffer due to those very same cuts.
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I don't know if this is true but is there a rule or presumption against a police officer working in the community he lives in? Think I vaguely remember hearing that from a copper.
 
Fame Monster said:
I don't know if this is true but is there a rule or presumption against a police officer working in the community he lives in? Think I vaguely remember hearing that from a copper.
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Up until the 70's I remember Police Houses on council estates. Then the accountants got involved - probably about the time council houses started to be sold off - and they were a resource to be sold off.

As I say just not doable nowadays - the backlash against them would be enormous - plus would a Policeman and his possibly Police officer wife earning up to a combined £100k pa choose to live on an estate built by a housing association these days?

I have certainly met Police Officers who live in the area their force - sorry its a service these days isn't it - covers. Worked with a lad who lived in New Marske who left and joined Cleveland Police Service and there were no issues then.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
We need a sea change in public opinion. Squadies used to have a bad name until Help for Heroes came along. Need a more positive public image. Bit like ‘Thank you for your service’. Mind you, they are not the only ones being given a hard time. All the emergency services are being given the assault treatment.
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That is a very good point
 
Ancient Citizen said:
This country is now virtually the only one in the world without armed police, and it's far from being violence free. I loved the fact we haven't needed them, but when you see tolerant, liberal countries' police all armed, and have been for decades, never giving them up, it does seem anachronistic these days.
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The French Police are armed. Two people got stabbed on the streets in Paris today. Guns are not an answer.
 
Kris_Musampa said:
Where do you start with this...

I feel one of the problems (and there are many!) is the militarisation of the old "bobby" on the street. Stab vests, combat trousers and boots, utility belts, tazers, peaked military style hats, all dressed in black, gives them a very sinister look, and disconnects them from ordinary people, and that's without adding a gun. Certain situations will automatically get cranked up just by them showing up. I think it affects them personally as well, I think their own aggression levels are higher, they are pumped, which can infame even more.

The uniform thing reminds me a bit of riding a motorcycle. Ordinary riders wrap themselves in ridiculously expensive carbon fibre and kevlar suits and helmets, which makes a rider think he can't be hurt 'cos of all the protective equipment he's donned. It ends in tears. The clothes don't make the man, or the copper...

Get the Bobby on the street less aggressively dressed, and get more of them, would be a start
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Of course it would be better of they didnt need stab vests, so much kit on belts or tazers but sadly the do. They would rather not have it also
 
Kris_Musampa said:
Where do you start with this...

I feel one of the problems (and there are many!) is the militarisation of the old "bobby" on the street. Stab vests, combat trousers and boots, utility belts, tazers, peaked military style hats, all dressed in black, gives them a very sinister look, and disconnects them from ordinary people, and that's without adding a gun. Certain situations will automatically get cranked up just by them showing up. I think it affects them personally as well, I think their own aggression levels are higher, they are pumped, which can infame even more.

The uniform thing reminds me a bit of riding a motorcycle. Ordinary riders wrap themselves in ridiculously expensive carbon fibre and kevlar suits and helmets, which makes a rider think he can't be hurt 'cos of all the protective equipment he's donned. It ends in tears. The clothes don't make the man, or the copper...

Get the Bobby on the street less aggressively dressed, and get more of them, would be a start
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The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester did an interview the other day wearing all his ruffy tuffy gear. Must have been expecting a lot of trouble when doing next years budget, needing his baton to get some measures through once he got back to his desk. Wearing a big full dress peaked hat with all the scrambled egg .on looked rather silly as well.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
This country is now virtually the only one in the world without armed police, and it's far from being violence free. I loved the fact we haven't needed them, but when you see tolerant, liberal countries' police all armed, and have been for decades, never giving them up, it does seem anachronistic these days.
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Ireland says hello.
As does Iceland Norway and New Zealand. All lovely places to live.

Interesting fact. NI is the only Uk country with an armed police force.
 
Mike Cledford said:
The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester did an interview the other day wearing all his ruffy tuffy gear. Must have been expecting a lot of trouble when doing next years budget, needing his baton to get some measures through once he got back to his desk. Wearing a big full dress peaked hat with all the scrambled egg .on looked rather silly as well.
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Not as silly as that post. Its leadership. A good idea for you if you think its all silly is to try it out and see how you get on, sign up as a special and give it a whirl and go out for a shift with your local response teams. Leave your kit behind on your second shift though, and see if you preferred it to your first
 
Uncle Wally One Ball said:
Not as silly as that post. Its leadership. A good idea for you if you think its all silly is to try it out and see how you get on, sign up as a special and give it a whirl and go out for a shift with your local response teams. Leave your kit behind on your second shift though, and see if you preferred it to your first
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Leadership my arse. Its the sort of 'leadership' that causes his men to follow him anywhere - if only out of curiosity to see what he does next or perhaps what he wears next. Hes an office wallah now so he should wear the office uniform.
The bit about doing a shift with the hobby bobbies tells me you are Inspector Clousseau and l claim my fiver.
 
Kris_Musampa said:
Where do you start with this...

I feel one of the problems (and there are many!) is the militarisation of the old "bobby" on the street. Stab vests, combat trousers and boots, utility belts, tazers, peaked military style hats, all dressed in black, gives them a very sinister look, and disconnects them from ordinary people, and that's without adding a gun. Certain situations will automatically get cranked up just by them showing up. I think it affects them personally as well, I think their own aggression levels are higher, they are pumped, which can infame even more.

The uniform thing reminds me a bit of riding a motorcycle. Ordinary riders wrap themselves in ridiculously expensive carbon fibre and kevlar suits and helmets, which makes a rider think he can't be hurt 'cos of all the protective equipment he's donned. It ends in tears. The clothes don't make the man, or the copper...

Get the Bobby on the street less aggressively dressed, and get more of them, would be a start
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Oddly enough I visited Moss Side yesterday and had to pop into the big Asda superstore. Outside the entrance police set up with a round table sort of meet and greet' except they approached nobody and nobody approached them. Moss Side is still predominantly Black, but that Asda is melting pot of race.

Coming in and out I saw nobody talk to them, just inquisitive looks at them.

Granted it could have been timing on my part, but both times I had to lock and unlock my bike and no attempt at contact was made either way.

And no Black officers were present. I found that rather interesting.
 
Bigga said:
Oddly enough I visited Moss Side yesterday and had to pop into the big Asda superstore. Outside the entrance police set up with a round table sort of meet and greet' except they approached nobody and nobody approached them. Moss Side is still predominantly Black, but that Asda is melting pot of race.

Coming in and out I saw nobody talk to them, just inquisitive looks at them.

Granted it could have been timing on my part, but both times I had to lock and unlock my bike and no attempt at contact was made either way.

And no Black officers were present. I found that rather interesting.
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You found it interesting that you had to lock and unlock your bike?



:P
 
Mike Cledford said:
Leadership my arse. Its the sort of 'leadership' that causes his men to follow him anywhere - if only out of curiosity to see what he does next or perhaps what he wears next. Hes an office wallah now so he should wear the office uniform.
The bit about doing a shift with the hobby bobbies tells me you are Inspector Clousseau and l claim my fiver.
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Dumb ass
 
I am pro-police, sadly they have been used as a political force for too long, they should be apolitical but as soon as Thatcher used them at Orgreave that respect has diminished which has allowed Govts of various hues to cut police numbers. Cutting police numbers is idiotic, we should have a proper well funded, well paid police force with all the equipment they need to make the streets safe. I am not anti the police having guns, I would prefer they didn't need them, that is a subtle distinction.

There also has to be public understanding of their role. Yesterday they quite rightly allowed that face mask demo to go ahead but when it overstepped the agreed boundaries they quite rightly moved to close it down and were attacked for doing so. Then all over social media was reports that the police were oppressive and that they allowed BLM to get away with stuff the covidiots didnt. That is just idiotic political propaganda designed at making political points at the expense of the police which is totally unwarrented.
 
The police have been in need of greater funding in the UK for a while now. I imagine when you can only afford to send one or two cops to an incident that previously you might have sent more to, it increases their chance of getting assaulted, because professional hard men (you know, the type who only attack people when they've got an obvious advantage) are more likely to think they'll be able to get away with it.

While I agree with BLM in the US for the large part, it clearly runs the risk of assuming that American problems are our problems too. We have issues with the police in the UK too, of course, but they're not the same and neither are the solutions.
 
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