Bluemoon Angling Thread

Newman Noggs said:
Brilliant. Once you start river fishing it never stops its siren call. I think it's because no two days are ever the same. As for being "nervous", that's more likely adrenaline. My hands used to shake when I was younger as I put up my rod. Not so much now though I still miss a ring occasionally in the excitement (no gags please).

Let us know how you go on.

I think the Whitehouse & Mortimer episode that was filmed on our stretch of the Wye in June is on the box tonight. Look out for my face peering through the bushes.
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Another superb episode tonight, sadly the last of the series. The river looked gorgeous and a couple of lovely fish caught. I hope they do another series, bob seems to be getting more into it, he no longer looks a complete noddy. I didnt see you in the bushes lol
 
Didsbury Dave said:
great stuff mate. The Dane is the perfect river to learn on. It’s small, intimate and pretty. It’s one rod, often mobile, fishing and whilst the barbel are not there in the numbers they were, you will catch chub whilst you learn. I did a couple of happy years fishing it around middlewich about 20 years ago. Had a double of 10-7 and also two river carp to 15lb. I still fish it occasionally in the winter for grayling at Swettemham.

Hopefully we can help you on here. I’ve got mates that fish it. Let me see if I can get a few starting pointers for you to put you onto the barbel stretches. In general, the lower down the river you are the better your chances and the bigger they are. That’s the case on all rivers actually..

Speaking of which, I had an afternoon on the Lower Ribble yesterday rolling meat for barbel. I fished pretty much every peg on a mile long stretch and didn’t have a touch. Friday evening I had a few hours with the lure rod after perch on The Calder. Again, not a touch. I’d guess that the big temperature drop has knocked them off.

I’ve just booked my annual two days on a boat on Esthwaite Water in the lakes for 17/18 October, staying at the beautiful Queens Head at Hawkshead. All paid for by my mate for my fiftieth. We’ve done it twice already for no fish so really hoping for a big pike, which is one species I’ve never had a really big one of. 16ib is my PB and there are 30s in there.
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Hope you smash that pike pb. You deserve it, you're obviously a good all rounder and you put the time and effort in. I enjoy reading your posts thank you for sharing. Tight lines
 
peace frog said:
i had a good look about where to fish for barbel in the NW, whilst reading i realised that my club bay malton have 6 stretches on the dane,from the motorway(cranage) toward Holmes chapel ,so ive decided to take a bait bucket and have a walk down, now i dont have deicated barbel gear,i have a strong feeder rod, hopefully that should do the trick, but my first trip will be a fact finding mission.

even though ive never fished a river im leaning more and more towards that sort of fishing, it is really calling me, I'm a bit of a wimp and im actually nervous about it, but ill jump in with both feet and give it a bash, i watched a video ,carl and alex explaining the basics, so im hopefully prepared.dont know when im able to start my adventure, hopefully soon

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If i was to start fishing again it would be just rivers. Ive spent too many hours behind buzzers in the past. I did do a bit of river fishing but it was always about big fish on big meres for me at the time. Turned into too much of an obsession, i was fishing nights in the week after work, gave up my social life etc. Cost me 2 relationships lol.
Is there a waiting list for bay malton? Id love to get a bit of gear and go roving on the river.
 
peace frog said:
how did you get on ,fish caught ?
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Caught 11 carp. All mid teens, biggest being 18lb. Was there 48 hours. Not bad considering i took the rods out of the water for the second night. Was far too cold that second night. No way that bivvy door was being unzipped!
Going to go on one of the specimen lakes next time.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
staying at the beautiful Queens Head at Hawkshead. All paid for by my mate for my fiftieth. We’ve done it twice already for no fish so really hoping for a big pike, which is one species I’ve never had a really big one of. 16ib is my PB and there are 30s in there.
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I
Ha ha ! Fond memories of the Queen's Head I spent my wedding night there with the ex-Mrs.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
great stuff mate. The Dane is the perfect river to learn on. It’s small, intimate and pretty. It’s one rod, often mobile, fishing and whilst the barbel are not there in the numbers they were, you will catch chub whilst you learn. I did a couple of happy years fishing it around middlewich about 20 years ago. Had a double of 10-7 and also two river carp to 15lb. I still fish it occasionally in the winter for grayling at Swettemham.

Hopefully we can help you on here. I’ve got mates that fish it. Let me see if I can get a few starting pointers for you to put you onto the barbel stretches. In general, the lower down the river you are the better your chances and the bigger they are. That’s the case on all rivers actually..

Speaking of which, I had an afternoon on the Lower Ribble yesterday rolling meat for barbel. I fished pretty much every peg on a mile long stretch and didn’t have a touch. Friday evening I had a few hours with the lure rod after perch on The Calder. Again, not a touch. I’d guess that the big temperature drop has knocked them off.

I’ve just booked my annual two days on a boat on Esthwaite Water in the lakes for 17/18 October, staying at the beautiful Queens Head at Hawkshead. All paid for by my mate for my fiftieth. We’ve done it twice already for no fish so really hoping for a big pike, which is one species I’ve never had a really big one of. 16ib is my PB and there are 30s in there.
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Good post and good luck breaking you PB pike mate.

@peace frog Regarding the Dane, as DD says it's a perfect river to learn on. However, for a small river it's a pressurised water and we're also fast approaching the first frost of the year which will knock them off the feed till they get used to the temperature drop. So, if you have time I'd get there sooner than later. I've not fished the Dane for several years now, probably 15 years. I used to fish Cotton Hall farm and Cotton farm. I think Bay Malton now have both stretches, but not sure. I fished the farm more upstream of the M6 J18.

Make sure your line is 12lb mainline and I'd go 10lb flourocarbon hooklength. May seem crude but barbel are very powerful fish built to fight hard! I like E.S.P Ghost Soft and Fox Illusion best, although there are other premium lines. Don't scrimp on buying cheap line or hooks because it could mean the difference between losing a fish of a lifetime or landing it. I remember one of the last sessions I fished in there I had brand new 8lb Maxima straight through, and when my rod arched round, either barbel or carp snapped it like cotton!

Hooks are also very important. Best quality hooks are lightweight forged steel Matt black with razor sharp points. I like Korum S5 and Xpert power hooks. Drennan Specialist Barbel, and Kodex Genomic MGP microbarbed. There are other brands I use but those I rooted out of my tackle box just now. Don't use shiny hooks, especially in bright sun and shallow water. I used to use Kamasan Animal hooks but they are too bright and shiny and unless you're fishing in deep dark water wily fish will back off. The Dane isn't deep or dark enough to use them even though they are strong sharp and reliable.

Good swims on there are often the ones with signs of bank wear and litter, unfortunately: /
Try and chose a swim on a deeper glide. At least 8m upstream of it if your fishing same bank. Fishing the shallow bank of a deep bend opposite or slightly upstream of is ideal, a gravel bottom and light streamer weed better still. And when the water temperature drops you want to try and locate a deep hole, especially in winter months.

As for bait, barbel big chub and carp have seen it all. Various boilies pellets and meat and if you use those baits you're limiting your species mostly to Barbel Chub and the occasional carp. So, I'd be tempted to fish the humble maggot which is often overlooked nowadays for specimen fish. The advantage of maggots is that you can catch perch roach dace and the occasional bream and grayling in the Dane. You may get pestered by nuicance Minnows at first but if you cast regularly you will either feed them off or bigger fish will nose them out. River fishing maggots is often a pecking order and you will often get left with mostly chub and barbel competing for food. And a shoal of barbel will nose big chub out of the swim if they're feeding confidently. Chub have a voracious appetite and a 3lb chub can probably snaffle half a pint of maggots if allowed to! Many years ago my mate had a 4 ounce chublet in his tropical tank and we fed it one maggot at a time. It at 29 maggots before it couldn't eat anymore. It was still trying to eat more and was comical watching maggots come out off it's gob as it went for more!

I'd start off with half a dozen casts of loaded maggot medium feeder with no hooklength on. Gives wily fish time to get used to the splash but more importantly you don't want to bump a big fish off before you've got them preoccupied by competing for maggots. Cast as accurately as you can and be mindful of any snags you get stuck on, sunken debris, tree branches etc. Fish love the sanctuary of snags but your tackle doesn't so don't cast to a hidden snag if you get snagged twice in same spot.

Start off with a simple 12-18" tail on a running feeder. Thread eye of feeder swivel through your reel line. Thread a rubber 6ml bead on and attach a medium to large Drennan quick change bead on. These are a brilliant invention in that you can swap hooklengths fast.

Once you get the fish competing for food you can adjust to suit. Barbel are often downstream of smaller fish competing for your feeder bait waiting for loose bait drifting past their nose. If you have fed for an hour or two when you think there are barbel present I think it may be worth lengthening your tail to as much as as 4 foot. On bigger deeper rivers like the Trent it can pay dividends with a 6 foot tail!

Don't forget to tie your knots well and wet knot in your mouth just before you pull tight or you may get a pigtail. There's a lot more to barbel fishing than what I and DD have said but if you follow advice given you'll be on the right track to success. But river fishing is often futile, so be prepared to be patient and as quiet and stealth-like as possible. You will eventually learn rivercraft but it takes time. Steady flowing water is often deep, but fast paced water is usually shallow, then there's creases in the river, eddy's and back eddy's. Don't worry to much about it for now though. Concentrate on the basics first.

Good luck and tight lines: )
 
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BlueMoonRisin’ said:
Good post and good luck breaking you PB pike mate.

@peace frog Regarding the Dane, as DD says it's a perfect river to learn on. However, for a small river it's a pressurised water and we're also fast approaching the first frost of the year which will knock them off the feed till they get used to the temperature drop. So, if you have time I'd get there sooner than later. I've not fished the Dane for several years now, probably 15 years. I used to fish Cotton Hall farm and Cotton farm. I think Bay Malton now have both stretches, but not sure. I fished the farm more upstream of the M6 J18.

Make sure your line is 12lb mainline and I'd go 10lb flourocarbon hooklength. May seem crude but barbel are very powerful fish built to fight hard! I like E.S.P Ghost Soft and Fox Illusion best, although there are other premium lines. Don't scrimp on buying cheap line or hooks because it could mean the difference between losing a fish of a lifetime or landing it. I remember one of the last sessions I fished in there I had brand new 8lb Maxima straight through, and when my rod arched round, either barbel or carp snapped it like cotton!

Hooks are also very important. Best quality hooks are lightweight forged steel Matt black with razor sharp points. I like Korum S5 and Xpert power hooks. Drennan Specialist Barbel, and Kodex Genomic MGP microbarbed. There are other brands I use but those I rooted out of my tackle box just now. Don't use shiny hooks, especially in bright sun and shallow water. I used to use Kamasan Animal hooks but they are too bright and shiny and unless you're fishing in deep dark water wily fish will back off. The Dane isn't deep or dark enough to use them even though they are strong sharp and reliable.

Good swims on there are often the ones with signs of bank wear and litter, unfortunately: /
Try and chose a swim on a deeper glide. At least 8m upstream of it if your fishing same bank. Fishing the shallow bank of a deep bend opposite or slightly upstream of is ideal, a gravel bottom and light streamer weed better still. And when the water temperature drops you want to try and locate a deep hole, especially in winter months.

As for bait, barbel big chub and carp have seen it all. Various boilies pellets and meat and if you use those baits you're limiting your species mostly to Barbel Chub and the occasional carp. So, I'd be tempted to fish the humble maggot which is often overlooked nowadays for specimen fish. The advantage of maggots is that you can catch perch roach dace and the occasional bream and grayling in the Dane. You may get played with nuicance Minnows at first but if you cast regularly you will either feed them off or bigger fish will nose them out. River fishing maggots is often a pecking order and you will often get left with mostly chub and barbel competing for food. Chub have a voracious appetite and a 3lb chub can probably snaffle had a pint of maggots if allowed to! Many years ago my mate had a 4 ounce chublet in his tropical tank and we fed it one maggot at a time. It at 29 maggots before it couldn't eat anymore. It was still trying to eat more but was comical watching maggots come out off it's God as it went for more!

I'd start off with half a dozen casts of medium maggot feeder with no hooklength on. Cast as accurately as you can and be mindful of any snags you get stuck on, sunken debris, tree branches etc. Fish love the sanctuary of snags but your tackle doesn't so don't cast to a hidden snag if you get snagged twice in same spot.

Start off with a simple 12-18" tail on a running feeder. Thread eye of feeder swivel through your reel line. Thread a rubber 6ml bead on and attach a medium to large Drennan quick change bead on. These are a brilliant invention in that you can swap hooklengths fast.

Once you get the fish competing for food you can adjust to suit. Barbel are often downstream of smaller fish competing for your feeder bait waiting for loose bait drifting past their nose. If you have fed for an hour or two when you think there are barbel present I think it may be worth lengthening your tail to as much as as 4 foot. On bigger deeper rivers like the Trent it can pay dividends with a 6 foot tail!

Don't forget to tie your knots well and wet knot in your mouth just before you pull tight or you may get a pigtail. There's a lot more to barbel fishing than what I and DD have said but if you follow advice given you'll be on the right track to success. But river fishing is often futile, so be prepared to be patient and as quiet and stealth-like as possible. You will eventually learn rivercraft but it takes time. Steady flowing water is often deep, but fast paced water is usually shallow, then there's creases in the river, eddy's and back eddy's. Don't worry to much about it for now though. Concentrate on the basics first.

Good luck and tight lines: )
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Great info, I'll have to go and do a bit of shopping, great on here, thanks everyone for your tips, much appreciated
 
peace frog said:
Great info, I'll have to go and do a bit of shopping, great on here, thanks everyone for your tips, much appreciated
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Your welcome pal. Forgot to mention that if you fish maggots I'd start on a 14 with 3 or 4 on the hook. If it gets hard going go to a 16s. Try and buy big maggots with black feedspot still present, degrease a pint with a teaspoon of turmeric as chub and barbel both love spicy baits.

Also re read my last post as I've edited it slightly.
 
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peace frog said:
Great info, I'll have to go and do a bit of shopping, great on here, thanks everyone for your tips, much appreciated
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Not brilliant news for you, @peace frog , I'm afraid. I spoke to two people about the Dane's Bay Malton Stretches, both of who know the river intimately. These are the two replies I got:

Being honest Paul, I’d tell him not to bother. Dane barbel stocks appear to have collapsed catastrophically in the last couple of seasons to the point that they’re very rare beasts indeed now. I’m on the Dane Facebook page and recall seeing one or two photos of barbel this summer. Depressing

There's a bit of info on the BM members FB page if he's on FB. Was a 4 and 5lb fish reported in 2019 and an 8lb 1oz in 2018, but most reporting either blanks or chub. No beats mentioned in particular though.

These are very knowledgeable anglers, much better than me, so I wouldn't dismiss their comments. You could make the chub your target, which is a good idea in winter anyway because they will feed pretty reliably, unlike the barbel. Or change river. I really would not try to learn how to catch barbel in a low stock river in the winter.

 
Didsbury Dave said:
Not brilliant news for you, @peace frog , I'm afraid. I spoke to two people about the Dane's Bay Malton Stretches, both of who know the river intimately. These are the two replies I got:

Being honest Paul, I’d tell him not to bother. Dane barbel stocks appear to have collapsed catastrophically in the last couple of seasons to the point that they’re very rare beasts indeed now. I’m on the Dane Facebook page and recall seeing one or two photos of barbel this summer. Depressing

There's a bit of info on the BM members FB page if he's on FB. Was a 4 and 5lb fish reported in 2019 and an 8lb 1oz in 2018, but most reporting either blanks or chub. No beats mentioned in particular though.

These are very knowledgeable anglers, much better than me, so I wouldn't dismiss their comments. You could make the chub your target, which is a good idea in winter anyway because they will feed pretty reliably, unlike the barbel. Or change river. I really would not try to learn how to catch barbel in a low stock river in the winter.

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What causes the barbel population to collapse like that - are they particularly fussy/vulnerable regarding water quality compared to say chub?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
What causes the barbel population to collapse like that - are they particularly fussy/vulnerable regarding water quality compared to say chub?
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It has happened on most of the UK's smaller rivers and is hotly debated. Most anglers blame otters but that isn't proven. There are other factors like destruction of spawning grounds, chemical runoffs from fields destroying eggs and even predation on fry which could be considered. The EA have a fish farm at Calverton where they breed some of the indigenous species. They quietly top up the barbel stocks of lots of rivers with juvenile fish all the time, partly because barbel spawning is very hit and miss at the best of times. You can occasionally recognise these "stockies" because sometimes they have a blue dot on their bellies.

Off the top of my head, only The Trent and Wye have maintained their abundant barbel stocks. Other medium/large rivers like The Ribble and Severn and the Yorkshire rivers still have decent numbers but nearly all the others are in decline for barbel.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
It has happened on most of the UK's smaller rivers and is hotly debated. Most anglers blame otters but that isn't proven. There are other factors like destruction of spawning grounds, chemical runoffs from fields destroying eggs and even predation on fry which could be considered. The EA have a fish farm at Calverton where they breed some of the indigenous species. They quietly top up the barbel stocks of lots of rivers with juvenile fish all the time, partly because barbel spawning is very hit and miss at the best of times. You can occasionally recognise these "stockies" because sometimes they have a blue dot on their bellies.

Off the top of my head, only The Trent and Wye have maintained their abundant barbel stocks. Other medium/large rivers like The Ribble and Severn and the Yorkshire rivers still have decent numbers but nearly all the others are in decline for barbel.
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Sad news about the Dane and I think Otters could be a big reason why barbel have declined. Also Mink are present on the Dane and I remember seeing them occasionally as far back as the early 80s, particularly on Croxton stretch. I'm no expert on Minks but they could be doing damage to barbel and other species. I think they are more common than otters on the Dane but I haven't fished on there for years so I don't know...
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
Sad news about the Dane and I think Otters could be a big reason why barbel have declined. Also Mink are present on the Dane and I remember seeing them occasionally as far back as the early 80s, particularly on Croxton stretch. I'm no expert on Minks but they could be doing damage to barbel and other species. I think they are more common than otters on the Dane but I haven't fished on there for years so I don't know...
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Mink don't present a problem to fish stocks generally. They've been around for many years.

I got bitten off one in The New Forest whilst carp fishing in the early 90s. I was showing off and hand feeding it luncheon meat and the bastard took a chunk out of my finger.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Mink don't present a problem to fish stocks generally. They've been around for many years.

I got bitten off one in The New Forest whilst carp fishing in the early 90s. I was showing off and hand feeding it luncheon meat and the bastard took a chunk out of my finger.
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Ouch! Ya fat fingered fucker; )

Joking apart, Mink eat fish and are too small an animal to consume a big barbel but they may bite chunks out of them to dieva slow painful death? I don't know. The Dane has previously suffered at least one bad pollution incident on the river that wiped out thousands of fish do to sewage and pesticides. Since then mother nature and fish ecology have prospered long enough for barbel to reach specimen size. Otters are probably the main culprits of why big barbel have become rare ?
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
Ouch! Ya fat fingered fucker; )

Joking apart, Mink eat fish and are too small an animal to consume a big barbel but they may bite chunks out of them to dieva slow painful death? I don't know. The Dane has previously suffered at least one bad pollution incident on the river that wiped out thousands of fish do to sewage and pesticides. Since then mother nature and fish ecology have prospered long enough for barbel to reach specimen size. Otters are probably the main culprits of why big barbel have become rare ?
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I'd say otters, yes. Wild mink tend to be scavengers, hence it begging chunks of meat from me all those years ago! It must be very difficult for big fish to escape otters in little waters. The last UK record from The Great Ouse (which is tiny) was found with its throat ripped out by an otter. I see them all the time now on The Ribble, including a whole family once.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I'd say otters, yes. Wild mink tend to be scavengers, hence it begging chunks of meat from me all those years ago! It must be very difficult for big fish to escape otters in little waters. The last UK record from The Great Ouse (which is tiny) was found with its throat ripped out by an otter. I see them all the time now on The Ribble, including a whole family once.
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Only seen one otter on the Wye but I'm not surprised you seeing a family as you're on the riverbank more than I am these days. Difficult situation really. I'm all for wildlife but I think otters are probably the main culprits decimating specimen fish, sadly.

I'll give you a dozen tins of spam and a box of plasters if you wanna hand feed them mate; )
 
BlueMoonRisin’ said:
Only seen one otter on the Wye but I'm not surprised you seeing a family as you're on the riverbank more than I am these days. Difficult situation really. I'm all for wildlife but I think otters are probably the main culprits decimating specimen fish, sadly.

I'll give you a dozen tins of spam and a box of plasters if you wanna hand feed them mate; )
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I don't think it's right that otters should be culled or controlled as many anglers want. They are just a part of the ecology and are a reintroduced indigenous species. We anglers have artificially changed the fish biomass and balance in most waters because everyone wants to catch big fish, particularly carp and barbel. I think we just have to live with it.

It would be great if they started to eat signal crayfish and mitton crabs as their primary food source, of course! Remember I posted early this season that something kept eating my bait through the night on the Tidal Trent? It turns out that the whole tidal Trent now is full of Mitton Crabs and nobody can keep a bait in he water for more than half an hour.
 
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