2020 US Elections

[Bigga]

I don't think there's too much difference politically between you and I, but I'm 63 and retired now. I've not moved to the right in my dotage but I lack the fire you seem to have.

In my youth I was president of my students union and I was active (sort of) in the Labour Party for many years. I say this not to play the older wiser head, I wish I had the drive I once had, but truth is you do get worn down by the sheer f**king stupidity of it all after a while.

I try to structure my posts with a beginning, middle and an end, but this post will not be one of them. The Americans will make their choice, it might be heavily skewed in favour of the rich and powerful, it always is, but Trump is so dangerous, that dreams of a revolution need to be put on hold, and if it's a choice between a sane old rich white guy and a mad old rich white guy, I know what choice I'd make.

And that is fair enough.

I've seen enough evidence online, nevermind family, to fear nothing much changing with a Biden Admin.

 

[Bigga]

Trump was very hostile in the Clinton debates. And Im no conspiracy theorist as everyone knows but it isnt a theory to say he was more than likely coked up during them. Cant think of any other reason for the continual sniffing and pacing all through them. His only option is to go very personal and very nasty tonight. Not statesman like but he has never has been and never will be.

#45 will go personal. Absolutely!

There's plenty of footage to see Biden getting rattled when his family are mentioned anywhere towards a negative light.

He loses it.

The smart thing to do is to use the cnut's trick.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

And that is fair enough.

I've seen enough evidence online, nevermind family, to fear nothing much changing with a Biden Admin.

Really? You think Biden will be asking moronic questions (and that is not hyperbole, they really were words you would expect to be uttered by a moron) to his scientific advisors on live global television, not once, not twice but multiple times? And that he will deny, then accept, then deny a national health problem? And he will wave away the global environmental issues (confirmed by mere mortals such as Sir David Attenborough and Dr Brian Cox) as something that will be gone next year?

You might be right about economy and jobs and people's rights, but they won't count for much if they're all dead anyway.

 

[SWP's back]

Trump was very hostile in the Clinton debates. And Im no conspiracy theorist as everyone knows but it isnt a theory to say he was more than likely coked up during them. Cant think of any other reason for the continual sniffing and pacing all through them. His only option is to go very personal and very nasty tonight. Not statesman like but he has never has been and never will be.

Biden’s got a temper on him, I could genuinely see them shoving each other.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

I've seen enough evidence online, nevermind family, to fear nothing much changing with a Biden Admin.

I remember the old rhyme:
"How small a part, of all that folk endure,
The part that laws or kings can cause or cure."
Which might offer some support to a cynical "it won't matter much either way" line of thinking, Bigga, except the stakes are so high nowadays - for health care, for the environment, to name but two - that replacing a cruel & mean-spirited man with a fairly decent one might be the only chance of proving that bit of 18th century doggerel wrong.

 

[Bigga]

Really? You think Biden will be asking moronic questions (and that is not hyperbole, they really were words you would expect to be uttered by a moron) to his scientific advisors on live global television, not once, not twice but multiple times? And that he will deny, then accept, then deny a national health problem? And he will wave away the global environmental issues (confirmed by mere mortals such as Sir David Attenborough and Dr Brian Cox) as something that will be gone next year?

You might be right about economy and jobs and people's rights, but they won't count for much if they're all dead anyway.

I'm not in denial about The Idiot, but he wasn't selected because he was an amazing politician. In 2016, he struck a chord with a public that was sick of the polished say-everything-do-nothing politician. The fact that he's a dumb arse does not negate that familiar feeling of the same politician coming back.

Yes, I understand Biden may well win, but the debate tonight will have to be perfect for him. It doesn't have to be that way for a 4 years old politician.

Biden can't afford to forget shit after being ruffled, nor really stutter too much or long. It will just make him look vulnerable.

#45 will hardly be focused on the current situation as it's not great for him, so he'll use what he can to muddy the waters.

 

[cjn]

I think people generally overrate the impact of debates, but Trump has put himself in a really dumb position. He's lowered the bar for Biden so much that all he needs to do to exceed expectations is to just go up there be a normal sounding, non-dementia brained, politician with a few good lines. And he will. Biden is not a great debater, but he's done a million of these and will be very well prepared. He's also legitimately not senile, that was always just a dumb right wing smear that people ran with.

Meanwhile, most people who don't pay attention to politics haven't seen much unfiltered Trump recently. So much of the news and clips people consume about him are sanitized to a huge degree, and generally speaking when people start to see a lot of him in uncut form, just riffing about nonsense, they don't like what they see and his poll numbers tend to go down afterwards.

 

[SWP's back]

and generally speaking when people start to see a lot of him in uncut form, just riffing about nonsense, they don't like what they see and his poll numbers tend to go down afterwards.

Yep. Hence his campaign undercutting him and stopping him doing the daily covid press briefings which nearly killed him in the polls. We can but hope Trump May suggest another gem such as injecting light into the body.

 

[Bigga]

I remember the old rhyme:
"How small a part, of all that folk endure,
The part that laws or kings can cause or cure."
Which might offer some support to a cynical "it won't matter much either way" line of thinking, Bigga, except the stakes are so high nowadays - for health care, for the environment, to name but two - that replacing a cruel & mean-spirited man with a fairly decent one might be the only chance of proving that bit of 18th century doggerel wrong.

I get it, Ali B.

It doesn't stop people afflicted by Biden in the past, not wanting him charge. people are fearful that democracy and the US will burn if #45 is left in charge.

For the record, again, I don't think that's true. It's just more hyperbole from a wind up merchant; the same that promised to "lock her up!".

He commands such control over the fear factor because he's willing to cross the boundaries of what's supposed to be honour.

The guy is in, literally, the fight for his life.

 

[cjn]

Yes, I understand Biden may well win, but the debate tonight will have to be perfect for him. It doesn't have to be that way for a 4 years old politician.

Biden can't afford to forget shit after being ruffled, nor really stutter too much or long. It will just make him look vulnerable.

#45 will hardly be focused on the current situation as it's not great for him, so he'll use what he can to muddy the waters.

You have this completely backwards. Trump is the current president who's down a ton in the polls, is currently presiding over a huge economic and humanitarian calamity, and just spend the last year painting his opponent as a senile old man who can't string a sentence together. He's the one that needs a perfect performance. All Biden needs to do is show up and be mediocre.

 

[west didsblue]

Biden’s got a temper on him, I could genuinely see them shoving each other.

Trump would shit himself if Biden touched him. Like most bullies he’s a big shithouse.

 

[Bigga]

You have this completely backwards. Trump is the current president who's down a ton in the polls, is currently presiding over a huge economic and humanitarian calamity, and just spend the last year painting his opponent as a senile old man who can't string a sentence together. He's the one that needs a perfect performance. All Biden needs to do is show up and be mediocre.

Again, you can't read.

What I said means he can't be LESS THAN mediocre.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I don't think Biden will be able to fix the problems in the US, or the damage to structures that have happened under Trump.

I think he will be able to start fixing them though. He'll need to involve at least more moderate Republicans to do so though.

 

[AliBobbyJ]

I get it, Ali B.

It doesn't stop people afflicted by Biden in the past, not wanting him charge. people are fearful that democracy and the US will burn if #45 is left in charge.
For the record, again, I don't think that's true. It's just more hyperbole from a wind up merchant; the same that promised to "lock her up!".
He commands such control over the fear factor because he's willing to cross the boundaries of what's supposed to be honour.
The guy is in, literally, the fight for his life.

I argued many times with p-c American colleagues i worked with in teaching (retired now) that their fears about DT's "dictatorial intentions" were paranoid, and i'd still say it's more a case of him taking delight in annoying those snowflake liberals who are most easily annoyed (as you've sometimes annoyed me, tbh.) But i can't get past two things: 1. his sheer nastiness, e.g.. mocking that disabled reporter, and 2. his willful blindness to threats to the environment. Whether the latter is out of ignorance or corporate greed i don't know, but its results are everywhere around and the world never mind just America needs to be rid of him.

 

[Damocles]

Biden will win. Then all the people who have been blaming Trump for everything will have no boogie man to blame but the US will continue to burn and inevitably slide into some form of fascist state.

 

[cjn]

Again, you can't read.

What I said means he can't be LESS THAN mediocre.

That is definitely not what you said, but ok.

I'm not in denial about The Idiot, but he wasn't selected because he was an amazing politician. In 2016, he struck a chord with a public that was sick of the polished say-everything-do-nothing politician. The fact that he's a dumb arse does not negate that familiar feeling of the same politician coming back.

Yes, I understand Biden may well win, but the debate tonight will have to be perfect for him. It doesn't have to be that way for a 4 years old politician.

Biden can't afford to forget shit after being ruffled, nor really stutter too much or long. It will just make him look vulnerable.

#45 will hardly be focused on the current situation as it's not great for him, so he'll use what he can to muddy the waters.

 

[Damocles]

I'm not in denial about The Idiot, but he wasn't selected because he was an amazing politician. In 2016, he struck a chord with a public that was sick of the polished say-everything-do-nothing politician. The fact that he's a dumb arse does not negate that familiar feeling of the same politician coming back.

Yes, I understand Biden may well win, but the debate tonight will have to be perfect for him. It doesn't have to be that way for a 4 years old politician.

Biden can't afford to forget shit after being ruffled, nor really stutter too much or long. It will just make him look vulnerable.

#45 will hardly be focused on the current situation as it's not great for him, so he'll use what he can to muddy the waters.

Trump wins pretty much every debate - it what put him in the White House. It doesn't matter though because undecided voters aren't going to swing on who "wins" a debate, they'll swing on the narratives that each are putting forward. The liberal narrative is stronger as it has been pretty much a 4 year onslaught so it will turn on that. These might actually be the least important debates in my lifetime in terms of election result.

Although Pelosi's idea of Biden not debating Trump "for the good of democracy" has been my favourite thing of this current election season and worth the price of admission alone.

 

[Bigga]

I argued many times with p-c American colleagues i worked with in teaching (retired now) that their fears about DT's "dictatorial intentions" were paranoid, and i'd still say it's more a case of him taking delight in annoying those snowflake liberals who are most easily annoyed (as you've sometimes annoyed me, tbh.) But i can't get past two things: 1. his sheer nastiness, e.g.. mocking that disabled reporter, and 2. his willful blindness to threats to the environment. Whether the latter is out of ignorance or corporate greed i don't know, but its results are everywhere around and the world never mind just America needs to be rid of him.

Understood and I'm not protecting him, but he's had a revenge list in the media and politicians to get through; Obama publicly mocking him made his mind up to run.

Thanks Obama.

As for the environment? The Dems have been no angels on this subject. Biden is on record saying he wants fracking to go ahead, has basically said real action for the environment won't happen til 2050 (supposedly 10-12 years before irreversible changes happen) and has been endorsed by Rich Snyder of all people!

There's got to be better examples of politicians that care about the people and the planet!

 

[Damocles]

There's got to be better examples of politicians that care about the people and the planet!

All politicians care about people and the planet. Including Trump, Biden, Obama, etc.

The biggest lie in politics is that all politicians are power hungry despots who don't give a shit about anybody but themselves. It's just a way for people to sway others to their side.

In reality the difference between most politicians is that their idea of how to go about helping the people and the planet are radically different. Don't confuse the two.

 

[Bigga]

That is definitely not what you said, but ok.

Yes, you'd expect a person who has been in politics since his 30s(40 years) to have a 'perfect' night against someone who has 36 years less experience than him.

But sidestep all you like about what 'mediocre' means in political terms.