Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
Did I hear right? This year the UK stock market has performed far worse than EU markets, put down to investors anticipating No Deal. Any City (of London) slickers got the memo?
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FTSE100 is 17% off this year's pre-pandemic peak.
The German DAX index is just 5% down.
US and Asian markets are above their pre-pandemic peaks.

So yes, we're doing worse than most.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Is that not a Taycan? Fuck sake, some morons don’t deserve to drive these brilliantly designed and engineered vehicles.
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looks like it - either accidentally lobbed in D or hit the accelerator when the driver thought it was the brake then when it moves forwards the urge is to brake harder thus going faster. Speed of cars like that off the line you'll have mashed up 2 other cars and a garden wall ........
 
Before we turn into Top Gear - it's a Brexit metaphor. Lots of dawdling then a high speed car crash.
 
bluethrunthru said:
looks like it - either accidentally lobbed in D or hit the accelerator when the driver thought it was the brake then when it moves forwards the urge is to brake harder thus going faster. Speed of cars like that off the line you'll have mashed up 2 other cars and a garden wall ........
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I have seen a couple on the road, not driven one yet though. Very handsome cars, nicer than the Panamera, better dimensions.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
For those that are interested, John Majors speech today which although quite lengthy, hits all the targets he intended to hit. It is a comprehensive lament for the soul of the U.K. I found it terribly sad reading.

Sir John Major’s Speech – Middle Temple’s Treasurer’s Lecture: The State We’re In – The Rt. Hon. Sir John Major KG CH

www.johnmajorarchive.org.uk www.johnmajorarchive.org.uk

Here is just part of what he said;

Brexit divided England and Wales from Scotland and Northern Ireland. It divided political parties and families; the young and their elders; business and trade unions; and friend from friend. As its full impact becomes apparent in the New Year, old wounds may re-open.

There is no consensus on Brexit, and never has been. It was a bitterly divisive policy, and uncorked a populism that may be difficult to quell.

The Referendum debate was unlike any I have known before. Emotion overcame reality. And, in the search for hearts and minds and votes, fiction defeated fact and fostered a belief in a past that never was – whilst boosting enthusiasm for a future that may never be.

If that mode of politics takes root, it will kill all respect in our system of government.

In the Referendum, Britons voted to leave the European Union. I have never hidden my view, nor have I changed it. To my mind – and I am no starry-eyed European – Brexit is the worst foreign policy decision in my lifetime.

I have seen the EU from the inside and know its frustrations. But have no doubt we were better off in than we will be out.

The decision to leave will damage our future in many ways, and the reassurances we are given are unconvincing.

Brexit was sold to our electors on false premises.

Promises made will not – indeed, cannot – be kept. To leave the EU – to separate ourselves from our neighbours – was sold as “regaining sovereignty”, but it is, and will prove to be, a long and painful ball and chain on our national wellbeing.

After the Referendum, Brexiteers did not even bother to argue the merits of their case – why should they? – it was “the will of the people”.

And once “the will of the people” was asserted as a repeated mantra – and the Brexit leaders claimed to speak for all “the people” – any opposition to Brexit became illegitimate, and any contrary view was howled down.

Free speech for those who supported remaining in the EU came at a price. They were pilloried as “Remoaners”: sticking to long-held principles and policies, and warning of clear dangers ahead was depicted as “sour grapes by sore losers”.

Even Judges were denounced as “Enemies of the People” for ruling on a Point of Law. Opponents of Brexit were cowed, and free speech was curtailed. It was shameful. No democracy should find itself in such a position.

Overseas, the outcome of the Referendum delighted our enemies and dismayed our friends. As our nation voted against its history and its self-interest, a bemused world looked on, wondering why we had chosen to become poorer and less influential.

Brexit was sold to the nation as a win-win situation. It is not. We were promised we would stay in the Single Market. We have not. We were told trade with the EU would be frictionless. It will not be.

We were promised we would save billions in payments to the European Union: a bus was driven around the country telling us so. Not so: Brexit is costing billions – not saving them.

We were told that our “liberated country” could cut back on bureaucracy and regulations. We now know they will increase – and dramatically.

We were promised we would strike lucrative trade deals with America, India, China and others in quick time. Japan apart – we have not.

More recently – and for the first time in our long history – Ministers have proposed legislation giving them powers to break the law. This is a slippery slope down which no democratic Government should ever travel.

And, it was claimed, Brexit wouldn’t increase support for Scottish independence or a united Ireland. It has.

It defies logic that intelligent men and women making such extravagant promises did not know they were undeliverable – and yet they continued to make them.

It was politics. It was campaigning. It was for a cause.

It was also unforgiveable.


he goes on to talk about post Brexit trade and independence. I don’t agree with everything he says but it Is refreshing to hear a grown up politician talking candidly about the issues we face as a nation.
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Genuinely surprised to see your reaction to this guff from the utterly two-faced buffoon. Someone the description 'the empty suit' was surely coined for.

Read those comments again with the realisation of the lies that he told whilst in office - and - to get into office

This man - someone that was so committed to the EU's dreams of federalism he was willing to bankrupt the UK to keep us locked in - and he came fucking close

Having seen such a reaction of shock to some Tories having the whip removed by the PM - I am surprised to see some teary eyed references to Major from other posters (not you) on these pages - he was a proper charlatan, but people are very 'flexible' when it suits

There are so many people that could have expressed those views with credibility - but not this utter ****

Probably too long a read for most - but this I feel is a quite factual and balanced reflection of Major's attitude to EU federalism and his willingness to damage the country in pursuit of it:


Another **** that had only disdain for the voting public
 
mcfc1632 said:
Genuinely surprised to see your reaction to this guff from the utterly two-faced buffoon. Someone the description 'the empty suit' was surely coined for.

Read those comments again with the realisation of the lies that he told whilst in office - and - to get into office

This man - someone that was so committed to the EU's dreams of federalism he was willing to bankrupt the UK to keep us locked in - and he came fucking close

Having seen such a reaction of shock to some Tories having the whip removed by the PM - I am surprised to see some teary eyed references to Major from other posters (not you) on these pages - he was a proper charlatan, but people are very 'flexible' when it suits

There are so many people that could have expressed those views with credibility - but not this utter ****

Probably too long a read for most - but this I feel is a quite factual and balanced reflection of Major's attitude to EU federalism and his willingness to damage the country in pursuit of it:


Another **** that had only disdain for the voting public
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Balanced reflection by the Bruges Group? You do make me chuckle (sometimes).

'The Bruges Group captured the spirit of the increasingly Eurosceptic Conservative Party of the late 1980s and early 1990s, becoming a rallying point for Conservative Maastricht rebels'.
Weren't they who he described as 'Bastards"?
Just who you want to write a 'factual and balanced reflection of Major's attitude to EU'
 
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