Only idiots who put an outdated concept of sovereignty above ongoing prosperity will disagree.
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Another new Brexit thread
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Hart of the Matter
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This all feels very scripted and choreographed.
mancity2012_eamo
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That’s easy for you to say.O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
Uncle Wally One Ball
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A self inflicted woundWhat a fucking shambles.
gordondaviesmoustache
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A hubristically self inflicted wound
I'll raise you Charles Wesley on what would happen to America after independence from Britain...O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
First for themselves the Patriots care
And each sincerely seeks his own
Eager the public spoils to share
And all into their hands to seize
The need of prosperous wickedness
(Probably should be in the Trump thread, but it's perhaps a caution against independence per se. Brexit does seem to have been accompanied by a ramping up of corruption by ministers of the crown.)
west didsblue
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Hope you’re right. Probably to be announced on Wednesday. Tomorrow will be all about the vaccine. Two big days for Johnson. He’ll love it, and it will give him some credibility for a while with the factions in the Tory party.I'm pretty sure this was what Johnson was going to do all along. It will matter enormously to him that everyone sees him swanning off to brussels to save the day. I just hope the prick comes back with a deal. Don't even give a shit how crap it is anymore, just not no deal.
Although who fucking knows anymore...
BobKowalski
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This all feels very scripted and choreographed.
Nah, never subscribe to design, what is invariably the product of cock up and incompetence.
what’s an outdated concept of sovereignty?Only idiots who put an outdated concept of sovereignty above ongoing prosperity will disagree.
If anything good is going to come out of this humongous shit show then more sovereignty is certainly it.
BobKowalski
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I think the prospect of Johnson’s personal involvement at this late stage is probably fairly disturbing for both Leavers and Remainers. Our country’s fate essentially resides in the hands of one man now, and a largely unscrupulous one at that.
On the bright side, the chances of Johnson coming back and saying ‘sorry, guys, I couldn’t get them to move‘ are fairly slim.
No leader wants to return empty handed with nothing to show for their efforts. He needs something to wave around. Let’s just hope he isn’t asked to sign something in an old French railway carriage.
bluethrunthru
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This all feels very scripted and choreographed.
If so we have had very little artistic input into the words nor the dance as compared with what has been promised for 5 years will not be represented by anything we get - they promised an banquet paid for by others but at best we will pay for our own thin gruel.
west didsblue
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I bet if you asked 100 people what more sovereignty meant to them, nearly all of them either wouldn’t have a clue or would go on about stuff that’s nothing to do with sovereignty.what’s an outdated concept of sovereignty?
If anything good is going to come out of this humongous shit show then more sovereignty is certainly it.
bluethrunthru
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I'm pretty sure this was what Johnson was going to do all along. It will matter enormously to him that everyone sees him swanning off to brussels to save the day. I just hope the prick comes back with a deal. Don't even give a shit how crap it is anymore, just not no deal.
Problem is if the idea they now just want to punish the UK is right he is stage manging the spectacle of him having his own arse handed to him publicly when they tell him they aren't interested in what he has to offer.
bluethrunthru
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On the bright side, the chances of Johnson coming back and saying ‘sorry, guys, I couldn’t get them to move‘ are fairly slim.
No leader wants to return empty handed with nothing to show for their efforts. He needs something to wave around. Let’s just hope he isn’t asked to sign something in an old French railway carriage.
See's himself as Churchill but at best will be Chamberlain
BobKowalski
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what’s an outdated concept of sovereignty?
If anything good is going to come out of this humongous shit show then more sovereignty is certainly it.
We are sovereign. You are either sovereign or you are not. There are no degrees of sovereignty. It is an absolute.
smudgedj
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Indeed. Now explain the European Communities Act 1972 which made EU laws and judges superior to British ones.We are sovereign. You are either sovereign or you are not. There are no degrees of sovereignty. It is an absolute.
gordondaviesmoustache
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Not in the realms of criminal, civil, family and land law.Indeed. Now explain the European Communities Act 1972 which made EU laws and judges superior to British ones.
BobKowalski
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Indeed. Now explain the European Communities Act 1972 which made EU laws and judges superior to British ones.
It was a sovereign choice we made. We made a sovereign choice to join a wider community and subscribe to a legal framework for the greater good.
We also made a sovereign choice to disengage from that community and legal framework. In both cases, the choice was ours to freely make. That is sovereignty.
smudgedj
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Excellent news; I'd rather be governed by people we elect.It was a sovereign choice we made. We made a sovereign choice to join a wider community and subscribe to a legal framework for the greater good.
We also made a sovereign choice to disengage from that community and legal framework. In both cases, the choice was ours to freely make. That is sovereignty.
It’s always better to be a self governing democracy.
I think that is rightLooking increasingly likely that this will now involve Johnson having a sit down with Macron and Merkel to try and sort it out.
The negotiators can do no more.
It does seem interesting though that we hear so often versions of:
".......Barnier can only give ground within the scope of the mandate given to them by the E27......" and ".......The only ones that can amend the EU mandate is the E27 leaders."
Seeming to suggest that the EU reflects a harmonious and cohesive membership and no change can be contemplated without their collective consideration - the suggestion seems to be that all 27 enjoy a level of equality.
Leave opinions that the EU is largely dominated by a couple of nations are derided - as nothing can be allowed to suggest that the EU is not a wholly mutual support group with its every action driven by rules to prevent prevent selfish and silo behaviour
Then we hear comments agreeing with your view - all seems very inconsistent
I mean which one is it - a harmonious mutual support group or some individual nations that are able to act in the manner of - he who pays the piper....
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