Another new Brexit thread

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

After four and a half years , three Prime Ministers , two general elections , 64 resignations and a total of 3498 U Turns , Johnson flies to Brussels at the last possible moment to





''secure the easiest deal in history''



HIGNFY

 

[stonerblue]

Is a Federal Europe Possible? – The New Federalist

First of all, thank you very much for the invitation to participate in this International Seminar in Ventotene, the prison-island where Spinelli, Rossi and Colorni wrote their famous Manifesto. I…

www.thenewfederalist.eu

A Federal Europe: the way out of the cris

The Spinelli Group - This report suggests a way to break the deadlock over the MFF. We recommend restructuring the EU budget into federal and confederal parts. Eurobonds could then be launched without changing the treaty or breaking the balanced budget rule, and at no extra cost to national...

www.federalists.eu

Claudia Gamon: “A federal Europe is within reach. In fact, we have never been closer.” – The New Federalist

Ahead of the 2019 European elections, The New Federalist is interviewing different candidates from different Member States. Today's contribution is about Claudia Gamon, national Spitzenkandidat of…

www.thenewfederalist.eu

federal Europe Archives - Euractiv

www.euractiv.com

Should keep you occupied until your next ignorant statement.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

 

[Saddleworth2]

The clause would be mutual presumably. If we're against it, that must mean we expect to be the ones not raising standards

It is mutual.

 

[BobKowalski]

Following on about LPF and ratchet clauses...

‘Angela Merkel spells out importance of evolution clause — level playing field for the future. She’s not always this clear, but LPF has been Germany’s priority from the start. And don’t recall her being so candid about readiness for no deal before.‘ @guardian

‘But we are also prepared for conditions we cannot accept. So if there are conditions coming from the British side which we cannot accept then we will go on our own way without an exit agreement. Because one thing is certain: the integrity of the single market has to be maintained.’ - Merkel

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Following on about LPF and ratchet clauses...

‘Angela Merkel spells out importance of evolution clause — level playing field for the future. She’s not always this clear, but LPF has been Germany’s priority from the start. And don’t recall her being so candid about readiness for no deal before.‘ @guardian

‘But we are also prepared for conditions we cannot accept. So if there are conditions coming from the British side which we cannot accept then we will go on our own way without an exit agreement. Because one thing is certain: the integrity of the single market has to be maintained.’ - Merkel

I hate to say I told you so ...... but hey ''I told you so''

 

[stonerblue]

counsel.

hahaha..

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Following on about LPF and ratchet clauses...

‘Angela Merkel spells out importance of evolution clause — level playing field for the future. She’s not always this clear, but LPF has been Germany’s priority from the start. And don’t recall her being so candid about readiness for no deal before.‘ @guardian

‘But we are also prepared for conditions we cannot accept. So if there are conditions coming from the British side which we cannot accept then we will go on our own way without an exit agreement. Because one thing is certain: the integrity of the single market has to be maintained.’ - Merkel

It's good to see at least Merkel gets it. Just as we can't expect access to the club from Jan 21, they can't expect to control us with the LPF.

 

[west didsblue]

Following on about LPF and ratchet clauses...

‘Angela Merkel spells out importance of evolution clause — level playing field for the future. She’s not always this clear, but LPF has been Germany’s priority from the start. And don’t recall her being so candid about readiness for no deal before.‘ @guardian

‘But we are also prepared for conditions we cannot accept. So if there are conditions coming from the British side which we cannot accept then we will go on our own way without an exit agreement. Because one thing is certain: the integrity of the single market has to be maintained.’ - Merkel

It would appear that at least one side has a viable walk away option. I suspect they will have the political will to use it as well.

 

[bluethrunthru]

‘Industry sources privately furious at Govt ‘capitulation’ to the US...’

Industry had better get fucking used to it with this lot in charge

 

[BobKowalski]

It's good to see at least Merkel gets it. Just as we can't expect access to the club from Jan 21, they can't expect to control us with the LPF.

Everybody ‘gets it’, except for the Brits.

 

[stonerblue]

I have no idea remainers on the whole have been pretty quiet about it all:-)

So no benefits so far then?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It's good to see at least Merkel gets it. Just as we can't expect access to the club from Jan 21, they can't expect to control us with the LPF.

Its a condition of trade.... if we want to sell to them we will have to sign up to a LPF.

This was never about a trade agreement for the Eu .....they can fill the gap left by the UK easily (and have already done so). This was always about ensuring that the other Eu members remained.


If some one could let MCFC1632 know that you need to understand the objectives of the other party before entering into negotiations.

 

[BobKowalski]

It would appear that at least one side has a viable walk away option. I suspect they will have the political will to use it as well.

Agreed. As the NI protocols are now taking shape under the Withdrawal Agreement, the option of the EU relying on the WA in the absence of a trade deal have increased.

 

[stonerblue]

It's good to see at least Merkel gets it. Just as we can't expect access to the club from Jan 21, they can't expect to control us with the LPF.

Which has been pretty fucking obvious to anybody with a brain from day one.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Which has been pretty fucking obvious to anybody with a brain from day one.

You'd have thought so.

 

[mat]

Boris playing to the ERG in parliament. I really wish people would fact check his bollocks.


It's all being nicely choreographed that he gets a jolly to Brussels with decent snap only to come back with "An Australian type deal", followed by a few jingoistic comments. With a bonus couple of EU digs.

 

[hilts]

So no benefits so far then?

 

[Len Rum]

On this business of having to observe LPF in the future which BoJo was ranting on about at PMQs why not agree to it subject to review in the future by some independent committee where one side can appeal if it thinks the other is deviating, and if the committee agrees then that side has the right to impose tariffs on the particular goods in question?
Messy I know but by rejecting future LPF out of hand now you get all these tariffs on all goods now in a situation where you might actually be complying with EU rules on all or at least some goods.
Even if this system proved unworkable it could at least buy some time?
Simples?.
(probably not).

 

[Metal Biker]

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

That you don't know what you're talking about?

Anytime!

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

You’ve little to complain about.

When you consider the Home Rule Bill passed in 1912 took until 1922 to actually get an Irish parliament.

Admittedly the arming of the unionists by Carson refusing the democratic will of the country, The Curragh incident where British army captains refused to take action against Ulster Loyalists, the consequential arming of the nationalist choosing to protect themselves, the gun running by both sides but particularly a blind eye being turned by the Westminster parliament to an Ulster armed militia, the 1916 Rising, the 1st world war, the 1918 elections where Sinn Fein won 73 of the 105 seats across all the 32 counties of the country, the declaration of an Irish parliament in Dublin as a result a guerrilla war fought with Britain resulting in the state (Britain) executing civilians (subjects) and their militia auxiliaries (black and tans) ransacking and burning whole towns and most of the City of Cork down,
A truce and treaty being reached between both sides of this war of independence (Scots friends take note, war not referendum)
Britain choosing to partition the country forming an unnatural border along loyalist demographics rather than either grant home rule or recognise the majority of the 1918 election thereby placating Carson and his armed militia.

But we got there. Well we got 26 counties there. Independence.

Oh and then there was the civil war because Churchill threatened Collins that he would put British troops back into the Irish Free State if he didn’t deal with the border county conflicts and atrocities that were happening to both communities by armed militias.
The pro and con treatyites were mainly due to The Irish Free State being a Dominion of the UK and having to pledge an oath of allegiance to the King yet unionists in Ulster got to opt out of a pledge to the Dail in Dublin and drew up partition of the country instead.

Then everything was absolutely rosey as we all know up to the drawing up very carefully of the GFA. Nothing much to report of any consequence in that interim period.

But no your right. People moaning in Britain about a referendum to opt out of a Union is just the pits.

Democracy? What do they or the EU know about it?

What are they like honestly?

MMMMmmmm, lovely democracy :-)