Another new Brexit thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You could even call it a deal wrapped up in a no deal label?

Pretty much. I don't care tbh if it means finding a way forward. We are only leaving the EU, not declaring war or leaving Europe which I think some on both sides tend to forget at times.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Not sure that is exactly what they are proposing mate although I do like your optimism.

I'm optimistic by nature.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Pretty much. I don't care tbh if it means finding a way forward. We are only leaving the EU, not declaring war or leaving Europe which I think some on both sides tend to forget at times.

Spot on, there's absolutely no reason to believe that in the future the EU countries still wont be our closest trading partners and closest allies. Europe is amazing I love the place and its peoples.

 

[BobKowalski]

Another extension then practically?

Not really, as we still have to implement full customs procedures on 1st Jan, also tariffs would kick in, it’s the bare minimum to keep transport moving (air and road) and they also want full fishing access. It does though create space for talks to continue, but as we are stuck in outrage mode that we are being asked to follow rules in exchange for better market access, not sure that it will do much good.

The plans are the same as they were two years ago when the WA looked like collapsing, although this time around the EU has the WA and NI protocols to also fall back on.

 

[Vic]

Next you'll be wanting David Gill to ref the match on Saturday

And another contender for non sequitur of the week.

 

[Vic]

Another extension then practically?

Shhh.

It's a non-extension brief encounter.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It’s because the EU loses quite often at the WTO, unlike the ECJ.

Do you have the stats?

 

[BobKowalski]

Spot on, there's absolutely no reason to believe that in the future the EU countries still wont be our closest trading partners and closest allies. Europe is amazing I love the place and its peoples.

Not been paying attention to the last few years I take it. Anyone else noticed that Johnson and chums have zero political clout in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam to name but three? Or that UVL nixed Johnson talking to Macron or Merkel?

We can‘t even get them to return our phone calls.

 

[jaseirai]

Do you have the stats?

Just opinion.

ECJ - an imperial, not an impartial, court

The proposed withdrawal agreement would subject the UK to a court which can never be an impartial arbiter in legal disputes involving the EU's own interests.

www.lawgazette.co.uk

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Incorrect. The EU will accept an independent adjudication forum for disputes.

Will they?

'Major differences' remain between UK and EU after PM’s Brexit talks in Brussels | ITV News

Crunch talks aimed at salvaging a trade deal between the UK and the EU have finished, with both sides pledging to try and make progress in the coming days.

www.itv.com

Brexit trade deal: What do the UK and EU want?

The UK and EU have set out their stalls for negotiations on their future relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit trade deal: What do the UK and EU want?

The UK and EU have set out their stalls for negotiations on their future relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now I don't know if this has changed very recently, but disputes are to be settled by the ECJ, according to many reports.

And we already ceded territory, I mean literally ceded territory, with NI in the Withdrawal Agreement, which was lauded as a UK triumph at the time it was struck, so, I can’t see why you are ‘suddenly’ bothered now.

Did we? So the French will be able to help themselves to their produce then.
Ah well, there's always casualties.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

We're probably one of the few countries in the world that have so many people that incorrectly think that.

Which countries allow free access to their waters?
Not a trick question, I haven't checked, I'd be interested to know.

 

[BobKowalski]

Will they?

'Major differences' remain between UK and EU after PM’s Brexit talks in Brussels | ITV News

Crunch talks aimed at salvaging a trade deal between the UK and the EU have finished, with both sides pledging to try and make progress in the coming days.

www.itv.com

Brexit trade deal: What do the UK and EU want?

The UK and EU have set out their stalls for negotiations on their future relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit trade deal: What do the UK and EU want?

The UK and EU have set out their stalls for negotiations on their future relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now I don't know if this has changed very recently, but disputes are to be settled by the ECJ, according to many reports.

Did we? So the French will be able to help themselves to their produce then.
Ah well, there's always casualties.

The EU have said that for LPF/State Aid disputes an independent forum is acceptable with adjudication acceptable to both sides with a quick and effective mechanism to deal with breaches.

The EU will have personal based in NI, in fact already have personal based there, to oversee custom procedures between GB and NI. NI will partly remain in the EU economic zone. That is ceding sovereign UK territory by any measure you care to use. EU LPF and State Aid laws will also apply in NI, as will the remit of the ECJ. So the UK ‘free of the EU‘ is dead. Has been for months.

 

[west didsblue]

Which countries allow free access to their waters?
Not a trick question, I haven't checked, I'd be interested to know.

No idea.

 

[BobKowalski]

Will they?

'Major differences' remain between UK and EU after PM’s Brexit talks in Brussels | ITV News

Crunch talks aimed at salvaging a trade deal between the UK and the EU have finished, with both sides pledging to try and make progress in the coming days.

www.itv.com

Brexit trade deal: What do the UK and EU want?

The UK and EU have set out their stalls for negotiations on their future relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk

Brexit trade deal: What do the UK and EU want?

The UK and EU have set out their stalls for negotiations on their future relationship.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now I don't know if this has changed very recently, but disputes are to be settled by the ECJ, according to many reports.

Did we? So the French will be able to help themselves to their produce then.
Ah well, there's always casualties.

It could be we are talking at cross purposes. LPF/State aid, EU are okay with independent arbitration. The other sticking point is governance which would I presume involve the ECJ. Not sure governance is that big a sticking point though, seems to be fish and LPF.

 

[blueparrot]

The EU have said that for LPF/State Aid disputes an independent forum is acceptable with adjudication acceptable to both sides with a quick and effective mechanism to deal with breaches.

The EU will have personal based in NI, in fact already have personal based there, to oversee custom procedures between GB and NI. NI will partly remain in the EU economic zone. That is ceding sovereign UK territory by any measure you care to use. EU LPF and State Aid laws will also apply in NI, as will the remit of the ECJ. So the UK ‘free of the EU‘ is dead. Has been for months.

Sounds great, lucky, N. Ireland. Pity it isn't open to other parts of the UK to opt for.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It could be we are talking at cross purposes. LPF/State aid, EU are okay with independent arbitration. The other sticking point is governance which would I presume involve the ECJ. Not sure governance is that big a sticking point though, seems to be fish and LPF.

I find it very difficult to understand why they should have rights to govern our State aid, fishing or subject us to the ECJ once we are not in the EU. I can see that there may be a trade off in terms of giving a bit on one or all those things to get a bit of what we want in terms of frictionless trade / market access which of course we are not entitled to as a non EU state, but the reality that we are no longer an EU member does rather seem to be getting lost.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

It could be we are talking at cross purposes. LPF/State aid, EU are okay with independent arbitration. The other sticking point is governance which would I presume involve the ECJ. Not sure governance is that big a sticking point though, seems to be fish and LPF.

I think we are, although I've not seen your point about accepting independent adjudicators, everything appears to point to the ECJ, but I'll take your word for it, if true that would be fine. Johnsons commons quote about EU laws
was more the reference point.

 

[Len Rum]

It could be we are talking at cross purposes. LPF/State aid, EU are okay with independent arbitration. The other sticking point is governance which would I presume involve the ECJ. Not sure governance is that big a sticking point though, seems to be fish and LPF.

Fazzakerley.
Independent arbitration would get it over the line ( at least for now).
Fish could be kicked into the long grass ( or deep water).
Where there's a will there's a way.
But the Tory party ( specifically the ERG) is the problem for Johnson.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No idea.

The answer is available, I'm checking, as yet I've not come across any offering
free access. So that being the case, it's not exactly unreasonable for us us to be in agreement with those who don't allow it.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Which countries allow free access to their waters?
Not a trick question, I haven't checked, I'd be interested to know.

The law was changed in the 1980's by the UN to grant each country a zone of 12. 00 miles (where possible) of their 'own water' .... this led to the Icelandic cod war as Britain refused to acknowledge the limits but eventually agreed. Some may argue that it also led to the war in the Falklands as Argentina's claim to the islands would've extended their 12 mile limit (and also captured oilfields)

Stangely this rule also means that the total area of Scotland plus its waters is greater than the total area of England plus its waters.

All countries who are members of the Eu allow free access to their waters by other members of the Eu subject to quotas