Another new Brexit thread

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Saddleworth2 said:
You may believe that Greece would not be in their current predicament if they had either ditched the Euro or pulled out of the EU. Many do not.
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Sorry - you are getting proper muddled there

I did not say that would be the case

Greece exiting the Euro would have allowed a number of changes to be made that would take them down a different path - but would it address the fundamental issues that result from the 'Greek culture'? - and other EU member states - of course not

And given that you are right to observe that - you have the answer to the question.....

Would the issue of debt-mutualisation be a 'one-off' event?

And then you can start to think of the ramifications of that - an objective assessment, I suggest, is that the UK is best well out of the EU.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I gave my views on debt mutualisation. You ignored them. And I suspect the words you quoted were prompted to remind a sovereign country about the arrangements it had signed up to.
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I did not ignore them at all - although I felt it was a very superficial assessment

I have not replied to them yet

That is a different thing

And you - IMO - need to get over this view that you seem to have that your views can be taken as being representative of all the Remainers on here

Most of the posts that refer to Remainer attitudes are referring to the general attitude of Remainers - you making a solitary attempt to act differently only emphasises the behaviour of others
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I thought Gina miller did an excellent job. As she told us at the time she was a brexiteer now too - she was just championing the right of parliament to scrutinise legislation. I can only hope she does the same service to the nation now, and can't understand why she's gone so quiet?
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She tried to stop the government invoking Article 50 by going to the Courts to insist on parliamentary scrutiny and won, in the hope that parliament would decide not to implement article 50. Parliament decided that not to follow Article 50, after a referendum, was a step too far so they did it anyway. She also pushed on the porogation to the point that parliament couldn't string Boris along any longer, resulting in an election which gave Boris the majority to push something through, and at least have some negotiating position.

If her actions mean that the UK can't approve a deal quickly if the chance comes, and as a result we leave with no deal, I don't think she'll be taking the credit.
 
west didsblue said:
What you haven’t grasped or are pretending not to realise is that the Greece crisis was totally related to their membership of the Eurozone. Their bailout was funded from the Eurozone and we were barely involved due to the fact that we were not and never likely to be part of the Eurozone. In the last few pages the two “best” economic reasons you leavers can come up with for Brexit were Target 2 and the Greek crisis, neither of which had any relevance to us because, and it appears to be difficult for you to understand, we’re not in the Eurozone.

That’s not to say any future problems with the Euro wouldn’t cause collateral damage - of course it would - but that’s true whether we’re in or out of the EU.

The only bailout we’ve participated in as donors was to help Ireland. That was in our own interest and it’s been fully paid back with interest. Even then most of the funding we committed to making available wasn’t drawn upon.
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Sorry - you simply do not have a clue about the long-term / strategic implications - yet blunder along with your nonsense

You repeatedly confirm this - so I will leave you to it
 
mcfc1632 said:
Sorry - you are getting proper muddled there

I did not say that would be the case

Greece exiting the Euro would have allowed a number of changes to be made that would take them down a different path - but would it address the fundamental issues that result from the 'Greek culture'? - and other EU member states - of course not

And given that you are right to observe that - you have the answer to the question.....

Would the issue of debt-mutualisation be a 'one-off' event?

And then you can start to think of the ramifications of that - an objective assessment, I suggest, is that the UK is best well out of the EU.
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Muddled? I think not mate. I’m not sure your comments are anything to do with my post. It is Friday though and quite understandable that you should have enjoyed a few by now.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Sorry - you are getting proper muddled there

I did not say that would be the case

Greece exiting the Euro would have allowed a number of changes to be made that would take them down a different path - but would it address the fundamental issues that result from the 'Greek culture'? - and other EU member states - of course not

And given that you are right to observe that - you have the answer to the question.....

Would the issue of debt-mutualisation be a 'one-off' event?

And then you can start to think of the ramifications of that - an objective assessment, I suggest, is that the UK is best well out of the EU.
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And the Greek debt is Euros, so they don't have the option of issuing more currency / devaluation like we do. Their only option would have been to default on the debt.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I did not ignore them at all - although I felt it was a very superficial assessment

I have not replied to them yet

That is a different thing

And you - IMO - need to get over this view that you seem to have that your views can be taken as being representative of all the Remainers on here

Most of the posts that refer to Remainer attitudes are referring to the general attitude of Remainers - you making a solitary attempt to act differently only emphasises the behaviour of others
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Wtf?
I represent nobody but myself. What the absolute fuck are you on about?
 
Gaudion M said:
Basically - every thing they hoped to get in the cake + eat cake ideal they had set out for has been shut down. Fish is the only real tangible win in a no deal (and its more like a lose lose than a win, but if the Eu lose then that is a win for a brexiteer).

So UK Gov are desperatley trying to get something on fish as everything else is in line with a stright forward hard brexit - i.e. to get zero tariffs we have to allign to EU rules. The allignment will have optionality to break away but you also break away from zero tarifs. In fact its not that different from being a member of the EU were we always had the option to leave and break away at any point.

As predictable from day 1 - its a shit deal and you are far better of being a member. That is the reality - fish gives them something to divert the conversation on to when theat reality is discussed going forward. If they dont get something on fish they can't say 'ah but fish'.
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What a load of nonsense
 
GH64 said:
And the Greek debt is Euros, so they don't have the option of issuing more currency / devaluation like we do. Their only option would have been to default on the debt.
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And the ramifications of that.........?

That question is not aimed at you BTW;-)
 
mcfc1632 said:
Sorry - you simply do not have a clue about the long-term / strategic implications - yet blunder along with your nonsense

You repeatedly confirm this - so I will leave you to it
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You’ve been proven wrong so many times it’s embarrassing. You’re the Donald Trump of the forum living in your own world of alternative facts spouting incoherent nonsense, absolutely convinced you know better than anyone else when in reality you are utterly clueless. Anyway I’ll leave you to it.
 
west didsblue said:
You’ve been proven wrong so many times it’s embarrassing. You’re the Donald Trump of the forum living in your own world of alternative facts spouting incoherent nonsense, absolutely convinced you know better than anyone else when in reality you are utterly clueless. Anyway I’ll leave you to it.
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Lol - at your need to always have the last word - no matter how fatuous

Bet you do it again;-)
 
Rascal said:
No, I am suggesting that Greece could have acted as it wished rather than have to obey the rules of the ECB. Whatever policy it decided to implement would have been a matter for them, in this case a matter for Syriza as they won the election. What is the point having elections if you can not introduce your own economic policies, whether they are good policies or bad is irrelevant, it is was their choice and they were not allowed to do it. Austerity was imposed upon Greece and that led to the rise of the far right Golden Dawn.

Syriza refuted the curtailment of democracy and the claim of "collective guilt" made upon Greece and claimed Fiscal consolidation and sustainable public debt cannot be achieved in an environment of austerity. It is only under conditions of economic recovery that the necessary reforms can be attempted and sustainable solutions found.

They could if they had wished followed a Keynesian model of growth as a way out of debt rather than the imposition of austerity way out of debt that the neo liberal ECB demanded.
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And all things are managed by the EU to achieve their aims of integration

The allocation of funds from the 'Covid recovery package' comes with 'strings attached'

Step by reluctant step all members are herded towards their corral
 
mcfc1632 said:
Perhaps there should ne another referendum?
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No point - we have burned our credibility and standing in the world now - we will not be able just to re-join with all the benefits we had - as per your previous post there will now be strings attached because we will be applying as a new entrant and going forward this govt and the leave camp will not be forgiven.
 
bluethrunthru said:
No point - we have burned our credibility and standing in the world now - we will not be able just to re-join with all the benefits we had - as per your previous post there will now be strings attached because we will be applying as a new entrant and going forward this govt and the leave camp will not be forgiven.
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Who would want the UK back after this shit show anyway? Sorry I mean England and Wales! I can see the socialist argument for leaving but what a mighty fuck up by the clowns in power now! Just have to hope the leftist vision of leaving is fulfilled.
 
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