Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
As was mentioned in that article I posted earlier - the shallow position of the SNP is laid bare:

"From a Scottish perspective, there is a huge amount to be pleased with in what has now been agreed. Given that the Scottish government were adamant that a deal was vital and that no-deal would be disaster, it might be expected therefore that the First Minister and her colleagues would have welcomed Thursday’s announcement, even grudgingly. But, sadly and predictably, political and constitutional considerations have once again outweighed what is in Scotland’s best interests, and the SNP, at both Westminster and Holyrood, will today try to vote this deal down.

We should be clear what exactly this means. The choice today is not between this deal and another deal, far less this deal and remaining in the EU – these bridges were crossed in the distant past. The choice now is between this deal and no-deal. The consequence of voting this deal down is that the UK leaves the EU tomorrow at midnight without a deal, with catastrophic consequences for our economy. And yet that is exactly what SNP MPs and MSPs will be voting for, simply to make a political point.

There can be little doubt that Nicola Sturgeon and her colleagues were banking on a no-deal outcome, hoping that this would drive support for Scottish separation higher. That they were wrong-footed by Thursday’s announcement from the Prime Minister was evident by the confused and incoherent messages coming out from senior SNP politicians.

They latched on to the issue of seed potato sales into Europe, without having done the research that showed that just five per cent of Scottish seed potato exports go to the EU. They tried to make an issue of the UK withdrawal from the Erasmus student exchange scheme, not realising that the replacement Turing scheme will be better funded and have a wider reach."
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Do you think no one knows that your unbiased even handed opinion comes from a Scottish Conservative?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Tbh, everyone on here seems ro think they can understand and form an opinion on the deal by now, so surely our MP's are at least as capable as us in the brexit thread of digesting the deal and forming an opinion by today? :-)
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No.

You also need to work on your ‘comedy’ posts, or bin them off altogether.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Just watching the start of the day at the HoC

A bit muddled and chaotic - but how refreshing it is to no longer have to see that preening fuckwit Bercow showboating

Anyway - an important and historic day ahead - what a long way democracy has come in 15months - since the grubby days when the likes of Greive and Soubry were enjoying their 15mins of relevance
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Muddled and chaotic because they are unused to clocking in at that time of day
 
From the Starmer pov I think he could both vote for but whilst going on the attack. Already there are flaws highlighted so I'd have had advisers working through the night to get examples. Then what he could do is say he thinks the deal is a light one full of flaws but even that has to be voted through because even the PM at the 11th hour came to his senses and realised that No Deal would have been catastrophic for this country.

Then highlight the dismay of the fishing industry representatives and how fishing communities feel let down then name Tories who have fishing towns in their communities and ask them how they feel now? Any exporter of sausages, minced meat products and banned cheeses to the EU should be named as should the constituency MP ( particular focus on ERG and NRG MP's ) and ask them are they happy that this could cost jobs and businesses.

That way he can kill 2 birds with one stone.
 
BobKowalski said:
Yeah, one day to analyse, debate and vote on a deal. The Govt even had to override its own rules on treaty ratification as it did with the WA.

And you hold up this as a shining example of democracy?

Even by your low standards that is a poor attempt at turd polishing.
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??

You and others on here did not even need one day to assess this deal and provide your judgement on it

In fact - you did not even need to see it published or understand it.

Just like the SNP - having their hypocrisy exposed in parliament just now - you chaps are simply locked into being unable to accept what has been achieved.

You are, perhaps understandably, it seems just locked into your own determination to avoid the obvious.....

The outcomes that you have been so insistent would occur for 4 years have been demonstrated to be largely plain wrong.

Anyway - today is a day for looking forwards - so I will resist getting sucked into the anxieties of those that are in denial and stuck in the days of the referendum campaign

For me this outcome is like the UK securing its position within a European trading bloc - whilst being thoroughly separated from the disastrous political, economic and financial integration

What's not to like from a UK best interests POV? is my position
 
Interesting on the merits of the deal...a reasonable take from the public given the timeframes.

‘The trade deal the government has agreed with the EU is a...

Good deal: 17%
Bad deal: 21%
Neither a good or bad deal: 31%

Unsure: 31%’

via @YouGov
 
bluethrunthru said:
From the Starmer pov I think he could both vote for but whilst going on the attack. Already there are flaws highlighted so I'd have had advisers working through the night to get examples. Then what he could do is say he thinks the deal is a light one full of flaws but even that has to be voted through because even the PM at the 11th hour came to his senses and realised that No Deal would have been catastrophic for this country.

Then highlight the dismay of the fishing industry representatives and how fishing communities feel let down then name Tories who have fishing towns in their communities and ask them how they feel now? Any exporter of sausages, minced meat products and banned cheeses to the EU should be named as should the constituency MP ( particular focus on ERG and NRG MP's ) and ask them are they happy that this could cost jobs and businesses.

That way he can kill 2 birds with one stone.
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Probably the best he can do. Unfortunately all that will be remembered is that he was either complicit or tried to block it. I'm usually the first to moan about him fence sitting, but this is genuinely a political tight spot for him.
 
mcfc1632 said:
As was mentioned in that article I posted earlier - the shallow position of the SNP is laid bare:

"From a Scottish perspective, there is a huge amount to be pleased with in what has now been agreed. Given that the Scottish government were adamant that a deal was vital and that no-deal would be disaster, it might be expected therefore that the First Minister and her colleagues would have welcomed Thursday’s announcement, even grudgingly. But, sadly and predictably, political and constitutional considerations have once again outweighed what is in Scotland’s best interests, and the SNP, at both Westminster and Holyrood, will today try to vote this deal down.

We should be clear what exactly this means. The choice today is not between this deal and another deal, far less this deal and remaining in the EU – these bridges were crossed in the distant past. The choice now is between this deal and no-deal. The consequence of voting this deal down is that the UK leaves the EU tomorrow at midnight without a deal, with catastrophic consequences for our economy. And yet that is exactly what SNP MPs and MSPs will be voting for, simply to make a political point.

There can be little doubt that Nicola Sturgeon and her colleagues were banking on a no-deal outcome, hoping that this would drive support for Scottish separation higher. That they were wrong-footed by Thursday’s announcement from the Prime Minister was evident by the confused and incoherent messages coming out from senior SNP politicians.

They latched on to the issue of seed potato sales into Europe, without having done the research that showed that just five per cent of Scottish seed potato exports go to the EU. They tried to make an issue of the UK withdrawal from the Erasmus student exchange scheme, not realising that the replacement Turing scheme will be better funded and have a wider reach."
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Please stop posting crap.

"They latched on to the issue of seed potato sales into Europe, without having done the research that showed that just five per cent of Scottish seed potato exports go to the EU "

My research suggests that, of all the seed potatoes exported from all the UK, a fifth is (was) Scottish potatoes going to the EU.
 
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dave_blue12 said:
So much shit talked about sovereignty and democracy on this thread by people who have no understanding whatsoever of the concepts.

Immature men who fit the facts to suit their distorted view of the world.

The human race is cursed by men who never grow up. Every forum you care to look at is inhabited by such people exercising their stupidity.
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Well I feel hugely better informed and quite 'chastened' by that objective and profound assessment ;-)

You must think that your posts over years have secured a position where everyone considers you to be balanced and are keen to hear and adhere to your views?
 
bluethrunthru said:
From the Starmer pov I think he could both vote for but whilst going on the attack. Already there are flaws highlighted so I'd have had advisers working through the night to get examples. Then what he could do is say he thinks the deal is a light one full of flaws but even that has to be voted through because even the PM at the 11th hour came to his senses and realised that No Deal would have been catastrophic for this country.

Then highlight the dismay of the fishing industry representatives and how fishing communities feel let down then name Tories who have fishing towns in their communities and ask them how they feel now? Any exporter of sausages, minced meat products and banned cheeses to the EU should be named as should the constituency MP ( particular focus on ERG and NRG MP's ) and ask them are they happy that this could cost jobs and businesses.

That way he can kill 2 birds with one stone.
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You could be watching him do this right now. Channel 232.
 
dave_blue12 said:
So much shit talked about sovereignty and democracy on this thread by people who have no understanding whatsoever of the concepts.

Immature men who fit the facts to suit their distorted view of the world.

The human race is cursed by men who never grow up. Every forum you care to look at is inhabited by such people exercising their stupidity.
Click to expand...
I like to think this thread acts as a sort of sump allowing all of us idiots to fester in a contained space and keeping the rest of the forum clear of our nonsense - largely the reason it wasn't shut months ago.
 
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