It’s not inconsistent. As an exampleFinally, hard evidence and data, not empty phrases.
Looked through, couldn’t find how this relates to overall trade, ie what percentage in £ of UK imports this applies to, nor can I find what we secured for this reduction in return. Any idea?
Which then brings me to a persistent irritation. This reduction in average tariffs from 7.2% to 5.7% is objectively good news and I assume you believe it to be so, yet you also championed a no deal with the EU which would have seen tariffs being levied. This seems somewhat ‘inconsistent’.
I also assume you are now in favour of the UK keeping in lockstep with the EU on rules and regulations to ensure we do not trigger tariffs on trade with the EU, which would mitigate any reduction in tariffs from elsewhere.
I never said you did, we’ve discussed it enough for me to confidently know your position on free movement. We just completely disagree, which is fine.Bob doesn’t think implementing global freedom of movement overnight will happen or be practicable.
I outlined that you start with neigbouring countries, small Unions (like our own), trade blocs like the EU. It’s a process that will take time, the elimination of barriers to people and trade is the goal
That said, Covid may see a shift to regionalism from globalism. Key industries and supply chains housed within regions and within a defined legal jurisdiction, which may in turn accelerate federalism in trade blocs or a quasi federal structure.
It’s not inconsistent. As an example
Democracy only works when the LOSER accepts the result of a democratic vote.
I didn’t get the no deal I wanted therefore I accepted the trade deal and will make the best of it. You should try it.
But - however that pendulum might swing - the most important consideration is that whilst the EU will progress towards full integration - the risk that the UK could be involved has disappeared for generations to come
So, I think that the future looks rosy for the UK
A points based system that allows the UK to prioritise the skills and numbers needed should be welcomed by all IMO
It will lead to reduced unemployment in the UK
It will lead to improved public and private sector services
It is not inherently discriminatory - as was the system that the UK was obliged to adopt
Re your final point though we may disagree - hatred and bitterness can cause extreme levels of delusion
Well that depends on whether we can achieve integration still in trade that’s as seamless as possible. Hopefully technology can bring it.
There’s risks either way, ultimately we’re part of a global economy, anything happening within the EU, or any large trading block, will have an impact on us.
Indeed:
"The beauty of the points system is we can fix it by making sure more doctors and nurses can reach 70pts. I am sure they are already in the “low jobs category” that grants 20, then if they’re qualified it’s another 20, speak English 10 and if the NHS offers jobs to these people that’s 20 again."
The UK will have total control over how it sets the scoring and can then flex to meet its priorities. It is absolutely commonsense and after a few years of being implemented the benefits will be obvious and irrefutable.
RE:
I have no idea what this means
I read that as being just another desperate attempt to associate Leave voters to being anti-immigration
So you think we'll be spending, sorry wasting, our time arguing with the EU
about getting back what we had?
Lol.
Somehow, I doubt it.
No it didnt, I actually wanted further integration and a fully federal state with single political parties that operated across the Union. An elected President and single constitution. Nobody had that vision though and the status quo was unacceptable as it is just a neo-liberal club that benefits those with wealth. A fully federated EU could have led to a fully federated Socialist state, with the likes of Labour, Portugals Bloc Esquerida and other Leftist EU parties forming one mass party to campaign for a Socialist state. When remain became the supporters of status quo i came to the conclusion I cant support that and initially i was unsure so abstained in the actual vote. I do consider myself fairly well educated but the complexity of the debate was overwhelming for me, for others it was much simple such as they wanted to end all immigration, or they wanted to carry on travelling to their holiday home in the Languedoc without a problem. The more I looked into it the more I came to realise that if i wanted a Socialist state then leaving was the only way that could be achieved. It wasn't easy though because i do still believe the EU is a source for good and i hated that i would be on the same side, albeit for different reasons as the likes of that horrible **** Farage.
Well yes, that's always been the case, which is why the arguments for it
fail, if a party advocated it, it would fail, which is why we don't have it.
Immigration is now down to the points system, and I'd suggest that's fine with
the 73%.
Can you put those words in the right order for meFar less likely to get socialism or social just out than in those sorts of things either come from labour or the EU out now they can only come from the Labour Party and only when they are elected and can be undone
I’ve read this several times and can only presume you’d had a drink last night?
What does Chinese culture, that’s existed for thousands of years, have to do with the Chinese Communist Party? And what does me disliking their government have to do with them being content with their culture?
A) This doesn’t surprise me, I’ve had the impression for a while several people on here don’t really like their country much. Self-hatred in a societal sense is very prevalent with some on the left at the moment
B) To be tolerant of other people’s cultures you don’t need to change your own, especially not to match theirs, which is a sort of weird masochism
C) Thankfully your view continues to be hammered in the polls every election and is a small minority view
Really nice to see some objectivity introduced on the thread
I hold very similar views to the ones you express - and the reason that I expressed my views that it would be good if the thread could be forwards looking is because I am hopeful that, as people adapt to the reality that change has happened - they can start to move on with their focus being on the potential for the future rather than being obsessed with the previous 'status quo'
I think that this will happen quite readily - as I mentioned in an earlier post.
Already there are discussions commencing about the role of the UK's Financial Services sector in the EU and some individual countries are making decisions to allow the City to continue using previous arrangements until new ones are agreed
And now that the focus is not on negotiations, but making profit/GDP, I would expect to see a number of IT/Technology enabled changes to processes that addresses/reduces/removes frictions that impacts trade.
For me - the most important test of the scope of the success that Brexit will bring will be the decisions this government brings forward with regards to investment in infrastructure and other programmes.
I am far from a supporter of the Conservatives, or indeed this PM - but I do think that they have an instinct for survival - and for them to survive 2024 they need to be able to point at 'hard differences' that they have made in 'levelling up' - and ideally how those improvements were only possible due to Brexit.
I think that some on here might be surprised about the policies, priorities and decisions that will come forwards in the next 12-18 months
I know you haven’t posted much since you joined the forum four years ago but you do realise how quoting and replying works right?Who doesn’t like there country ? Says we should change our culture to fit other people ? Change our culture how ? When I think of culture I think of food art and music I don’t see how that’s really got anything to do with the government or I feel no force or compulsion is used. People who complain about immigration with perhaps the exception of the far right do not complain about Reggie music or Indian takeaways etc etc
What you are saying is that anyone who voted remain cannot be racist. I don't agree.So your going to deny that the people complain on this thread about immigration or in the referendum voted leave ? Or that those on the far right voted leave ? Or that Farage and his campaign was about immigration
To coin a phrase not all leavers where racist but all racist voted leave
....
In some ways FOM was better for racists. Whatever immigration we needed priority was given to white, Christian countries. Race gives you no points in the new system.
Funnily enough I’ve been accused of being a racist by that poster and I voted remain, and still would do if I had my time again.What you are saying is that anyone who voted remain cannot be racist. I don't agree.
Loads of people voted remain for purely economic reasons, they think they will be worse off out of the EU. It is perfectly rational to do that even for a racist. You own a company, immigrants help you keep your costs down, paperwork is easy, you don't need to pay as much as in a points system, plus you can sell easily in Europe.
In some ways FOM was better for racists. Whatever immigration we needed priority was given to white, Christian countries. Race gives you no points in the new system.
It’s still biased towards Europeans who are the same ethnicity as ourselves.It‘s called Europe.
So your going to deny that the people complain on this thread about immigration or in the referendum voted leave ? Or that those on the far right voted leave ? Or that Farage and his campaign was about immigration
To coin a phrase not all leavers where racist but all racist voted leave
Its actually a subset of Europe which doesn't include all of the white Christian countries, and doesn't include any of the Muslim ones - like Bosnia and Herzogovina, for example. They've applied for EU membership but are a long way off getting in.It‘s called Europe.