United thread 2020/21

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Messi38 said:
I think you're pushing a myth that he plays well for France tbh, prior to the world Cup the French wanted him out the team and post world Cup hes been hit and miss. Even at the world Cup I think his performances were hyped up, there were plenty of better performers in that French team, mbappe, griezmann, kante, Lucas hernandez, varane, umtiti. He was at best a good cog in a well oiled machine. He kept it simple and thats when he's at his best.

I dont know what sort of world it is where people think pogba plays well for France and messi bad for Argentina. Infinitely higher standards messi is judged by I guess.
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Do you think he plays no better for France than when he plays for the rags?
 
Besides he's surrounded by far more quality with France, other players are rubbish for their clubs but turn it on at international level, not that pogba does that.
 
Messi38 said:
Yeah he's better for France but he's hardly anything special for them either.
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Well he’s a regular starter for the world champions, which suggests a certain level of quality that wasn’t on display last night, and is rarely if ever on display when he plays for the rags.

I’m going to leave it there. You think he’s shit, the manager of France disagrees.
 
Chris in London said:
Well he’s a regular starter for the world champions, which suggests a certain level of quality that wasn’t on display last night, and is rarely if ever on display when he plays for the rags.

I’m going to leave it there. You think he’s shit, the manager of France disagrees.
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I dont think he's shit.

Kleberson and Stephan guivarch started for the world champions too.

What you said about the manager of France is an appeal to authority fallacy example. I take it you agree with every decision didier deschamps has even undertook and think he never gets anything wrong then? Look up argument from authority.

Great managers, not that deschamps is one of those, pick average players all the time. Is Henderson world class because he's a regular under a far better manager than deschamps in klopp? Henderson is a good player, but klopp picking him would suggest he's world class using your argument.

Do you think giroud and loris are great players?
 
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Chris in London said:
He plays for the rags therefore being overhyped comes with the territory. You may have spotted that.

There aren’t many players in world football who ARE fit to lace Kevs boots.

Neither point means he wasn’t a good player at Juve, and neither point means he doesn’t play well for France.

If think if he was playing for someone else he would be no better, you might want to explain why Sanchez, Falcao, Di Maria, Forlan etc all did better when they left the swamp
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We ain't going to agree on the showpony mate.. You rate him.. I don't.
You think he's a top player.. I don't.
It's all down to opinions and mine is he's overhyped and he really does anything of note.
As for the other players you mentioned none of them have exactly set the world alight since leaving the swamp.
As soon as a player signs for the rags he's world class.. Until they get on the pitch..
Let's just agree to disagree on showpony.
 
Was Darren Fletcher a top player cos ferguson always picked him? How about Johnny Evans or Danny welbeck? Ridiculous logic.
 
blue by birth said:
We ain't going to agree on the showpony mate.. You rate him.. I don't.
You think he's a top player.. I don't.
It's all down to opinions and mine is he's overhyped and he really does anything of note.
As for the other players you mentioned none of them have exactly set the world alight since leaving the swamp.
As soon as a player signs for the rags he's world class.. Until they get on the pitch..
Let's just agree to disagree on showpony.
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Yeah sanchez, Falcao and di Maria have had a mini revival but are nowhere near the players they were before they joined united. Forlan became a far better player after he left them but that was two decades ago.
 
blue by birth said:
We ain't going to agree on the showpony mate.. You rate him.. I don't.
You think he's a top player.. I don't.
It's all down to opinions and mine is he's overhyped and he really does anything of note.
As for the other players you mentioned none of them have exactly set the world alight since leaving the swamp.
As soon as a player signs for the rags he's world class.. Until they get on the pitch..
Let's just agree to disagree on showpony.
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I don’t rate him, that’s the point. I DID rate him - at Juve I thought he was excellent - I think he’s gone downhill significantly since returning to the swamp, and I think if he left the swamp chances are he would return to his best.

You’re right, none of the others have set the world alight, ALL of them have improved.

I think there is something toxic at that club that has a negative impact on a lot of the players they sign. If you don’t agree with that, as you say let’s agree to disagree.
 
Chris in London said:
I don’t rate him, that’s the point. I DID rate him - at Juve I thought he was excellent - I think he’s gone downhill significantly since returning to the swamp, and I think if he left the swamp chances are he would return to his best.

You’re right, none of the others have set the world alight, ALL of them have improved.

I think there is something toxic at that club that has a negative impact on a lot of the players they sign. If you don’t agree with that, as you say let’s agree to disagree.
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Was playing with better players at juve in a slower league, for the team who at that time were by far the best team in serie a. He also wasn't tasked with controlling games.

Id suggest his man united form is a closer more accurate indicator of his actual ability. But I dont think he's terrible, I just think he's bang average.
 
Chris in London said:
I don’t rate him, that’s the point. I DID rate him - at Juve I thought he was excellent - I think he’s gone downhill significantly since returning to the swamp, and I think if he left the swamp chances are he would return to his best.

You’re right, none of the others have set the world alight, ALL of them have improved.

I think there is something toxic at that club that has a negative impact on a lot of the players they sign. If you don’t agree with that, as you say let’s agree to disagree.
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It's "The Romance" TM ;-)
 
Messi38 said:
I dont think he's shit.

Kleberson and Stephan guivarch started for the world champions too.

What you said about the manager of France is an appeal to authority fallacy example. I take it you agree with every decision didier deschamps has even undertook and think he never gets anything wrong then? Look up argument from authority.

Great managers, not that deschamps is one of those, pick average players all the time. Is Henderson world class because he's a regular under a far better manager than deschamps in klopp? Henderson is a good player, but klopp picking him would suggest he's world class using your argument.

Do you think giroud and loris are great players?
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You’re entitled to your opinion about Pogba, which I respect even if you formed it without actually ever having seen him play in the flesh. And you’re entitled to it even if Didier Deschanps doesn’t share it (unless he does share it but picks him for shits and giggles. )

I really don’t want to spend my time arguing about It any more.
 
Chris in London said:
You’re entitled to your opinion about Pogba, which I respect even if you formed it without actually ever having seen him play in the flesh. And you’re entitto it even if Didier Deschanps doesn’t share it (unless he does share it but picks him for shits and giggles. )

I really don’t want to spend my time arguing about It any more.
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Youre still resorting to the argument from authority even though I just told you why its a poor line of argument. Deschamps is a poor manager and plenty of average players have started for top teams throughout history. I take you rate every player in the French squad cos deschamps picked them?

The fact you've seen him in the flesh doesn't make your opinion more valid. I doubt he magically turns into xavi when you can follow him the whole game.
 
Chris in London said:
I don’t rate him, that’s the point. I DID rate him - at Juve I thought he was excellent - I think he’s gone downhill significantly since returning to the swamp, and I think if he left the swamp chances are he would return to his best.

You’re right, none of the others have set the world alight, ALL of them have improved.

I think there is something toxic at that club that has a negative impact on a lot of the players they sign. If you don’t agree with that, as you say let’s agree to disagree.
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No I agree about the swamp being toxic.. As soon as players join there they become overhyped and they think they are worldbeaters, but the main thing is they turn into bigger twats than they were.
I think only Mata is a player who didn't become a twat, and possibly Pogba who is too concerned about his image to be arsed
 
Last night Stones lost the ball which was passed out to Pogba on the left wing to carry forward. As he carried the ball Stones caught him up, muscled him off the ball (John Stones!) and moved forward with it while Pogba jogged behind him with no intention of trying to catch him. That incident highlights the mentality of both players
 
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