Coronavirus (2021) thread

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Sky news, first focussing on Pfizer jab not giving 100% protection after first jab. And lots of talk about the vaccines might not be effective on the variants. Some positive news about the good news on the AZ front but bizarely no mention of the zero hospitalisation of anybody after 22 days after 1 jab. Then deaths and positive cases and then lastly the vaccine numbers. These media organisations just cant help themselves with their negative slant on everything.
 
Perspective:

The AZ phase III data does not have sufficient events in the >65s to judge efficacy in that age group. US, Germany and France are not using it in older patients for that reason. (US have declined to even consider it for any ages pending further data)

The company has proposed bridging to younger patients through a phase II study which shows equivalent immune response across younger and older subjects, rather than direct efficacy. The UK, the EMA (European Regulator), India, and a number of other juristictions have approved it on that basis, although a full phase III dataset would be more normal.

Neither approach is unreasonable, it's a judgement of benefit vs risk. I'm glad the UK have taken the approach they have personally, but I don't think other judgements are necessarily politically motivated.

We will have real-world data in the next 2-3 months which it's unlikely, but possible, will make our decision look wrong in hindsight. Equally, more elderly French, Germans and Americans may die as a result of their conservative decisions on risk.
im glad they havent approved it as it might mean more for us. Its that simple. I trust our scientists.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you meant the priority groups, which is just down to u70s I think.

I think "opening up" to near normal requires something like:

1. Headroom in hospitals in case things go in the wrong direction, and to enable the health service to . Both total COVID beds and ICU COVID beds to a small fraction of what they are now.
2. Very low case load - I'd suggest well down into the hundreds, as it was last summer. That means that if cases start growing, it can be contained without trashing the health service again. Or if the vaccine isn't quite as good as we hope, we can readjust to getting 2nd doses in place.
3. Track and trace up to speed. Again, to keep a lid on any outbreaks, including new variants of concern.
4. Doing it slowly. Primary schools / wait a couple of weeks, Secondary schools/ wait a couple of weeks. Shops, pubs with social distancing, etc until we get a full Etihad in September. If we're lucky, and vaccine passports might be essential for mass gatherings if we haven't got really high vaccine coverage.

All the things we're really missing like pubs, family gatherings, footie, will come faster in the end rather than slower if we keep this controlled.

On "real world" - clinical trials are very closely controlled. Everyone has the jab exactly when they should, eligible people are closely checked, the population often omits the most vulnerable. Just for instance, here whilst the trials did include over 70s, fully half of the deaths in the real world are in over 80s. Will that even older group respond as well? We don't know. Will the 2nd jab make more of a difference for those people? Probably. Most medical treatments show better results in clinical trials where these things are closely controlled than when used with the general public. The emerging Israeli data, for instance, doesn't look quite as good as the trial data (though *very* early to judge, and still very good from what we can see).
hopefully it will be sooner than that. Football stadiums open that is.
 
Perspective:

The AZ phase III data does not have sufficient events in the >65s to judge efficacy in that age group. US, Germany and France are not using it in older patients for that reason. (US have declined to even consider it for any ages pending further data)

The company has proposed bridging to younger patients through a phase II study which shows equivalent immune response across younger and older subjects, rather than direct efficacy. The UK, the EMA (European Regulator), India, and a number of other juristictions have approved it on that basis, although a full phase III dataset would be more normal.

Neither approach is unreasonable, it's a judgement of benefit vs risk. I'm glad the UK have taken the approach they have personally, but I don't think other judgements are necessarily politically motivated.

We will have real-world data in the next 2-3 months which it's unlikely, but possible, will make our decision look wrong in hindsight. Equally, more elderly French, Germans and Americans may die as a result of their conservative decisions on risk.
I take on board and agree with what you say about but unlike his German and Swedish counterparts he announced that the vaccine from AZ was 'quasi ineffective' and then went on to say in the same press briefing "I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers,". But he knew he'd given enough to the global media put the spotlight back on AZ with that soundbite and stop the press tearing him a new one for his horizontal vaccine launch -

I bet my bottom dollar that the bulls up in procurement by the EU was in part driven by him hoping to showcase Sanofi as the great saviour of Europe.

Gutted when any vaccine doesn't make it as we are going to need a shed load for this project, so I take no pleasure in Sanofi/GSK not coming through with theirs. Hopefully with SAN/GSK and Novartis offering up their production sites for those vaccines that have made it past the regulators already we can all start ramping up production in Q2.
 
50 people all fined for attending a house party on Bristol.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but these Fuckwits don't give a shit about the lives of others and fines don't seem to be a strong enough deterrent
 
I take on board and agree with what you say about but unlike his German and Swedish counterparts he announced that the vaccine from AZ was 'quasi ineffective' and then went on to say in the same press briefing "I don't have any data, and I don't have a scientific team of my own to look at the numbers,". But he knew he'd given enough to the global media put the spotlight back on AZ with that soundbite and stop the press tearing him a new one for his horizontal vaccine launch -

I bet my bottom dollar that the bulls up in procurement by the EU was in part driven by him hoping to showcase Sanofi as the great saviour of Europe.

Gutted when any vaccine doesn't make it as we are going to need a shed load for this project, so I take no pleasure in Sanofi/GSK not coming through with theirs. Hopefully with SAN/GSK and Novartis offering up their production sites for those vaccines that have made it past the regulators already we can all start ramping up production in Q2.
Micron est plein du merde..
 
Sky news, first focussing on Pfizer jab not giving 100% protection after first jab. And lots of talk about the vaccines might not be effective on the variants. Some positive news about the good news on the AZ front but bizarely no mention of the zero hospitalisation of anybody after 22 days after 1 jab. Then deaths and positive cases and then lastly the vaccine numbers. These media organisations just cant help themselves with their negative slant on everything.
No. They cant. Which is why i dont bother
 
Numb arm you say? Can you choose which arm?

Asking for a friend
Not too sure if it matters as it goes deep inside the muscle. I would imagine it to be numb regardless of the site chosen owing to trauma caused. A tablet or capsule would be less stressful all round. Maybe they could perfect the sugar lump vehicle of protection as they did with Polio and simply post the cubes out by post. Anyway she said it was only dead for a few hours, with no mither after.
 
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England Hospital Data last 24 hours

Some more good news.

Patients down 1142 to 27, 397 - lowest in 4 weeks.

Ventilators down 90 to 3324 - lowest in 3 weeks.

Regionally:-

Every single region has fewer patients than yesterday.

East down 325 to 3060

London 158 to 5723

Midlands 120 to 5383

NE & Yorkshire 94 to 3402

North West 163 to 3854

South East 201 to 4143

South West 81 to 1832


Ventilators mostly down too

East down 37 to 292

London down 15 to 1075

Midlands up 5 to 622

NE & Yorkshire up 2 to 319

North West down 3 to 367

South East down 15 to 455

South West up 3 to 184
 
50 people all fined for attending a house party on Bristol.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but these Fuckwits don't give a shit about the lives of others and fines don't seem to be a strong enough deterrent
Always going to happen on occasion for a number of reasons.

Just like sociopaths are pathological liars , some have a tendency not to take the advice of those in positions of authority and buck health advice.
 
England Hospital Data last 24 hours

Some more good news.

Patients down 1142 to 27, 397 - lowest in 4 weeks.

Ventilators down 90 to 3324 - lowest in 3 weeks.

Regionally:-

Every single region has fewer patients than yesterday.

East down 325 to 3060

London 158 to 5723

Midlands 120 to 5383

NE & Yorkshire 94 to 3402

North West 163 to 3854

South East 201 to 4143

South West 81 to 1832


Ventilators mostly down too

East down 37 to 292

London down 15 to 1075

Midlands up 5 to 622

NE & Yorkshire up 2 to 319

North West down 3 to 367

South East down 15 to 455

South West up 3 to 184

Least it has taken the pressure of the hospitals slightly if nothing else. Numbers falling very slowly though.
 
I wonder if all these major nations refusing to give the Oxford vaccine to over 65s (Sweden now too) will start to erode confidence here and see people asking to wait until they can have the 'better' one.

The media reporting these stories is bound to make a few think that way. As they will not know the details and judge on how we seem almost alone in taking what they may perceive as a risk.

I will take what I am given when it is my turn as I understand the arguments as many out there will likely not but being over 65 I can see why some may feel happier if by chance it is the other one.

Frustrating that we are in this position because it might cost lives to think there even is a less good one that others are saying you should not be having as it is too risky.

Especially as the good points of the AZ Oxford one (lack of hospitalisation and lower transmissibility) are rarely stressed and yet are possibly more important.
 
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I wonder if all these major nations refusing to give the Oxford vaccine to over 65s (Sweden now too) will start to erode confidence here and see people asking to wait until they can have the 'better' one.

The media reporting these stories is bound to make a few think that way. As they will not know the details and judge on how we seem almost alone in taking what they may perceive as a risk.

I will take what I am given when it is my turn as I understand the arguments as many out there will likely not but being over 65 I can see why some may feel happier if by chance it is the other one.

Frustrating that we are in this position because it might cost lives to think there even is a less good one that others are saying you should not be having.
My friends mrs works as a dentist in Salford and she was given the choice of either AZ or PFZ and opted for the latter as everyone in the practice had said it was the better one and she’s only 39
 
I wonder if all these major nations refusing to give the Oxford vaccine to over 65s (Sweden now too) will start to erode confidence here and see people asking to wait until they can have the 'better' one.

The media reporting these stories is bound to make a few think that way. As they will not know the details and judge on the way that we seem almost alone in taking what they may perceive as a risk.

I will take what I am given when it is my turn as I understand the arguments as many out there will understandably not but being over 65 I can see why some may feel happier if by chance it is the other one.

Frustrating that we are in this position because it might cost lives to think there even is a less good one that others are saying you should not be having.

I think the news about the AZ/Oxford vaccine having an apparent effect on transmission might make some reconsider.

Quite sure we'd all prefer the Pfizer vaccine with a 21-day interval, but we cannot all have it this year. Maybe in the future.
 
Not too sure if it matters as it goes deep inside the muscle. I would imagine it to be numb regardless of the site chosen owing to trauma caused. A tablet or capsule would be less stressful all round. Maybe they could perfect the sugar lump vehicle of protection as they did with Polio and simply post the cubes out by post. Anyway she said it was only dead for a few hours, with no mither after.
I think mate, that is what is known on here as a “whoosh”....

;-)
 
Least it has taken the pressure of the hospitals slightly if nothing else. Numbers falling very slowly though.
i think it will strat to drop quite fast give it another week, we all know these numbers are the xmas and new year infections,,i posted about a neighbour having a xmas party and a new year party a few pages back and there attitude was 'we do what we want' well they dont anymore because there both dead at that house,i ask myself was it worth it
 
I wonder if all these major nations refusing to give the Oxford vaccine to over 65s (Sweden now too) will start to erode confidence here and see people asking to wait until they can have the 'better' one.

The media reporting these stories is bound to make a few think that way. As they will not know the details and judge on how we seem almost alone in taking what they may perceive as a risk.

I will take what I am given when it is my turn as I understand the arguments as many out there will likely not but being over 65 I can see why some may feel happier if by chance it is the other one.

Frustrating that we are in this position because it might cost lives to think there even is a less good one that others are saying you should not be having as it is too risky.
I doubt it and I’m not sure Sweden and major countries goes together in the same sentence. Especially when the Swedish Government allowed its population to be part of an extremely dangerous Covid experiment. The higher portions of people who are refusing to take the vaccines are reported to be BAME and people within these ethnicities who don’t rely on the main stream media for their news.

The news will make some people planning to take the vaccine nervous but I doubt many will change their minds.
 
50 people all fined for attending a house party on Bristol.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but these Fuckwits don't give a shit about the lives of others and fines don't seem to be a strong enough deterrent
Fines should be £5k per person and £20k for the organiser. Not only that everyone who is fined plus their immediate family should have to wait for their vaccine until everyone else has had it. They should also be refused NHS treatment for 12 months. Harsh and maybe disproportionate but these twats need to understand the jeopardy they are putting themselves and others in. This might just help them realise that their actions are selfish etc
 
i think it will strat to drop quite fast give it another week, we all know these numbers are the xmas and new year infections,,i posted about a neighbour having a xmas party and a new year party a few pages back and there attitude was 'we do what we want' well they dont anymore because there both dead at that house,i ask myself was it worth it
This example should be shown on TV on every channel as to why we should follow the rules.
 
Quite sure we'd all prefer the Pfizer vaccine with a 21-day interval, but we cannot all have it this year. Maybe in the future

Honestly, I don't think it really matters.

It's like two starving men debating whether fish and chips or curry is preferable.

I do worry with @Healdplace that the highly risk adverse decisions elsewhere will cause unwarranted hesitancy here.

Anyway, it removes any ethical motive to divert vaccine to Europe as they wouldn't be using it in high risk people anyway.
 
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