Political relations between UK-EU

[Metal Biker]

I don’t imagine they were consulted in the dying embers of negotiations

Remember this is coming from one who once said;

We already sell to Europe. Most of what we catch goes to Europe. We don’t eat what we catch. Personally I don’t care about fishing.

and

For what it’s worth the more frothing on both sides about fish, the more likely there will be a compromise that both sides can paint as a win. The real ball game is LPF/state aid and governance. Fishing is emotional and sexy and a bit of a diversion.

 

[BobKowalski]

In a population of 67,000,000, 12000 work as fishermen and that has been steadily decreasing for decades.

And only a percentage of those 12000 are in trouble now.

We’ve seen single companies put more people at risk of redundancy than the amount affected in the Brexit fishing debacle, in the last 12 months, due to Covid.

Let’s get some perspective here.

The fishing industry was totemic for the Leave campaign, it was used as a symbol of the great things that could be achieved with Brexit.

That it got fucked over and the people who were championing it now avoid it like it was a box of rotting cods head, means it’s going to get a lot of attention.

If it was so important before the referendum and if it was so important during negotiations, indeed it was one of our genuinely strong cards, then how come we ended up with a deal that screwed us over, is a reasonable question to be asked.

 

[blueparrot]

Two issues are being conflated.

The ‘fishing is 0.1% of our GDP’ issue was largely about quotas and the Common Fisheries Policy. That issue was resolved on the basis of a reduction over time of the EUs access to U.K. waters. The argument was that this sacrifice - continuing to allow EU access to U.K. waters - would be justified by securing a good deal on (eg) services (though we didn’t actually get that).

What is currently killing the fishing industry is not their ability to land fish, or the level of the EUs access to our waters, it’s the U.K. fleet’s inability to sell its catch to the EU. That is because there are now barriers to U.K./EU trade which did not exist previously.

That’s the point and if fish was the only sector effected we ‘d probably live with it. It isn’t and as more businesses open up and try to recover after lockdowns, we’ll discover more businesses find themselves damaged by the deal we have agreed.

 

[metalblue]

Two issues are being conflated.

The ‘fishing is 0.1% of our GDP’ issue was largely about quotas and the Common Fisheries Policy. That issue was resolved on the basis of a reduction over time of the EUs access to U.K. waters. The argument was that this sacrifice - continuing to allow EU access to U.K. waters - would be justified by securing a good deal on (eg) services (though we didn’t actually get that).

What is currently killing the fishing industry is not their ability to land fish, or the level of the EUs access to our waters, it’s the U.K. fleet’s inability to sell its catch to the EU. That is because there are now barriers to U.K./EU trade which did not exist previously.

The last paragraph is the nub of the problem. The deadline for a deal was fast approaching, a deal was done without the due diligence such a deal demanded.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

I presume your job or business isn’t put at risk by a shit deal then, well done.

That's nice of you chap. Cheers

 

[BobKowalski]

It certainly demonstrates the hypocrisy of the white,affluent, privileged Remain crowd. No concern whatsoever for the fishing industry during the campaign. Indeed such was the contempt these working class lads and lasses were held in by Captain Geldof and his ilk, Cap’n Bob and his fellow chaps saw fit to hire a motor craft at considerable expense for the purpose of sailing it down the nations busiest river simply to use this as a way to call these hard working, concerned fellow citizens Wankers and tell them to Fuck Off on national television.

That was the priority. That was the best use of his time and his money - much of it earned from the tragedy of black families dying of starvation - He didn’t use that surplus cash to donate to a soup kitchen, he didn’t use it to help out a local charity. No, he used his surplus cash to tell working class people “you’re wankers” and “fuck off” Simply because they disagreed with his view of the world.

That was also the moment when millions of other working class people realised, in full HD, exactly what the suburban set actually thought of them.

That was the moment that hit home.

That was the moment the referendum was won for Leave.

That was the moment our country was saved.

You can take your fake concern for people you wouldn’t ordinarily piss on if they were on fire. They know you don’t mean it. They know you really think they are wankers and are beneath you. They have memories. So do I. And on June 23 2016 I used that memory in the voting booth.

Working class solidarity won. Affluent privileged sneering lost.

Thank you. You and yours made the case for Leave far better than the leave campaign could ever have dreamed of doing themselves.

And the fishing industry got fucked over, so, aside from venting your obsessive class resentment, what exactly is your fucking point?

How does putting up trade barriers, fucking up export trade and people’s livelihoods or kicking British kids out of Erasmus help anyone of any class?

 

[Chris in London]

That’s the point and if fish was the only sector effected we ‘d probably live with it. It isn’t and as more businesses open up and try to recover after lockdowns, we’ll discover more businesses find themselves damaged by the deal we have agreed.

True.

As a nation, we’re a bit better off for being able to land a greater proportion of the fish in U.K. waters without running the risk of over-fishing.

As a nation, however, we sell much more than we eat. We are probably going to be much worse off for introducing non-tariff barriers to trade between the U.K. and its biggest export market.

 

[Ban-jani]

The fishing industry was totemic for the Leave campaign, it was used as a symbol of the great things that could be achieved with Brexit.

That it got fucked over and the people who were championing it now avoid it like it was a box of rotting cods head, means it’s going to get a lot of attention.

If it was so important before the referendum and if it was so important during negotiations, indeed it was one of our genuinely strong cards, then how come we ended up with a deal that screwed us over, is a reasonable question to be asked.

And those who were saying how unimportant it was, as an industry, are now going on like its life or death for the UK economy.

I was and am consistent, it’s unimportant in the grand scheme of things and whilst it’s sad for the few people who it’s affected, the impact on the economy is nearly nil.

 

[Ban-jani]

It literally did; in this or its immediate predecessor that was locked on NYE.
And yes I'm fine.

Good, glad to hear it.

 

[west didsblue]

The last paragraph is the nub of the problem. The deadline for a deal was fast approaching, a deal was done without the due diligence such a deal demanded.

Correct. It should have been front and centre of the discussions. The fact that it wasn't is a clear demonstration of the ineptitude of Johnson and Frost.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

And the fishing industry got fucked over, so, aside from venting your obsessive class resentment, what exactly is your fucking point?

How does putting up trade barriers, fucking up export trade and people’s livelihoods or kicking British kids out of Erasmus help anyone of any class?

I wouldn't expect you to understand mate.
You think me and mine are wankers to be insulted on national television.

But thanks for the victory.

 

[BobKowalski]

And those who were saying how unimportant it was, as an industry, are now going on like its life or death for the UK economy.

I was and am consistent, it’s unimportant in the grand scheme of things and whilst it’s sad for the few people who it’s affected, the impact on the economy is nearly nil.

No, we are using it as a totemic example of the poor deal we ended up with. It’s better than no deal, but it’s still a bad one.

When you have Brexiteers demanding we tear up or renegotiate the WA and the NI protocols, and have industry sectors from Chemicals to Haulage writing open letters to Govt pointing out the unworkability or absurdity of what we have negotiated or the BoE highlighting what we have still to negotiate and urging the EU to not cut off the City from Europe, I think it’s reasonable to highlight these points and use the totemic fishing industry as a symbol of where it all went wrong.

 

[Chris in London]

The last paragraph is the nub of the problem. The deadline for a deal was fast approaching, a deal was done without the due diligence such a deal demanded.

Yep.

Funny how many of the arguments like ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, or ‘there is a technological solution to the Irish border problem’ or ‘GATT art 24 is the answer’ all fell away as reality approached.

 

[BobKowalski]

I wouldn't expect you to understand mate.
You think me and mine are wankers to be insulted on national television.

But thanks for the victory.

What victory? We had four years of negotiations and lost.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

What victory? We had four years of negotiations and lost.

The victory you've been bitching about for over 4 years now.

And counting..

 

[west didsblue]

It certainly demonstrates the hypocrisy of the white,affluent, privileged Remain crowd. No concern whatsoever for the fishing industry during the campaign. Indeed such was the contempt these working class lads and lasses were held in by Captain Geldof and his ilk, Cap’n Bob and his fellow chaps saw fit to hire a motor craft at considerable expense for the purpose of sailing it down the nations busiest river simply to use this as a way to call these hard working, concerned fellow citizens Wankers and tell them to Fuck Off on national television.

That was the priority. That was the best use of his time and his money - much of it earned from the tragedy of black families dying of starvation - He didn’t use that surplus cash to donate to a soup kitchen, he didn’t use it to help out a local charity. No, he used his surplus cash to tell working class people “you’re wankers” and “fuck off” Simply because they disagreed with his view of the world.

That was also the moment when millions of other working class people realised, in full HD, exactly what the suburban set actually thought of them.

That was the moment that hit home.

That was the moment the referendum was won for Leave.

That was the moment our country was saved.

You can take your fake concern for people you wouldn’t ordinarily piss on if they were on fire. They know you don’t mean it. They know you really think they are wankers and are beneath you. They have memories. So do I. And on June 23 2016 I used that memory in the voting booth.

Working class solidarity won. Affluent privileged sneering lost.

Thank you. You and yours made the case for Leave far better than the leave campaign could ever have dreamed of doing themselves.

Where's AC when you need him with his Citizen Smith picture.

How's things in the Tooting Popular Front?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

The Damascene conversion of some on the remain side is good to see regards concern for fishermen.

I well remember the cheering on here when the white multi-millionaire Bob Geldof and his white middle class affluent establishment chums sailed a motor launch down the
Thames for the sole (see what I did there?) purpose (porpoise?) of giving the universally accepted ‘wanker sign’ and ‘V sign’ to poor fishermen and women.

That was the moment when I realised Remain had to be defeated. No matter what. At any cost. That was the moment, on national television, when people like me saw exactly what people like them thought of me.

I’m thankful to say we won.

Go and ask those fishermen what they think of Brexit now. At least 90% will tell you they were conned by the slogans of the rich men. Not that I expect you to give a fuck because the rest of your post sums up a point I've made for four years: the majority of Brexit fans on this forum, and you're one, never ever gave a shit about what was right for the country or for anybody else. It was all only ever about getting your first little victory over the establishment. It was an act of gross stupidity and selfishness born from ignorance and insecurity.

You were a pawn for the tax evading, xenophobic upper classes. They preyed on the chip on your shouder.

 

[Metal Biker]

5 years on and still lessons have not been learned.

And it's the same ignorant voices, too.

 

[west didsblue]

Go and ask those fishermen what they think of Brexit now. At least 90% will tell you they were conned by the slogans of the rich men. Not that I expect you to give a fuck because the rest of your post sums up a point I've made for four years: the majority of Brexit fans on this forum, and you're one, never ever gave a shit about what was right for the country or for anybody else. It was all only ever about getting your first little victory over the establishment. It was an act of gross stupidity and selfishness born from ignorance and insecurity.

You were a pawn for the tax evading, xenophobic upper classes. They preyed on the chip on your shouder.

Ironic that the establishment is now the xenophobic upper classes thanks to the gullible pawns who added their votes to the xenophobes and Marxists that voted for this shit show.

 

[metalblue]

Yep.

Funny how many of the arguments like ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’, or ‘there is a technological solution to the Irish border problem’ or ‘GATT art 24 is the answer’ all fell away as reality approached.

“no deal is better than a bad deal*

*when the bad deal is worse than no deal”

Talk about stating the obvious. It was a nonsense statement really I can only imagine uttered in public to show how tough each side was being with the other.

Nail on head of the “solutions” it all seemed far enough away to talk fancifully but once you start getting into the detail they see solutions are years away from being realised.

It’s now about prioritising the problems/ barriers. The trouble is while we work through all this real people and livelihoods are suffering. So full government support for these industries is an absolute must during this time.