The Conservative Party

[Ban-jani]

Why are you introducing it into debate then when it's obvious that despite her not meeting one they exist? It might be the case that they're not in her class or just don't bring it up in conversation.
Law students are by a large minority female, this will be even more evident at postgrad level.

Entry trends

Demographic information about entrants to the solicitors' profession.

www.lawsociety.org.uk

Young Conservatives are more likely to be male. Perhaps that's just a factor. Most intelligent women don't have the same sense of arrogance that stereotypically young men have to bring up seemingly unsavoury views to a progressive audience. I wouldn't expect to hear someone start talking about "There's only 2 genders" , we need to bring back corporal punishment or get people picking up litter for their benefits in serious conversation amongst mere acquaintances.

General election: who will win the youth vote? | YouGov

Age will be a key dividing line in the 2019 general election

yougov.co.uk

"For both men and women under 30, Labour has a clear lead. But young women are much more likely to vote for Labour (60%) than young men (44%).

The Conservatives are in the opposite situation, with the backing of 26% of young men and only 15% of young women – a figure likely to alarm those within the party keen to shake-off the perception that Boris Johnson has a ‘woman problem’."

What is wrong with you lot being afraid to actually quote me?

Are you all hoping I miss it and don’t respond?

I was blatantly giving an example, of an account, or what general life is like on campus and how swayed it is towards left wing thinking and how much conservative views are either repressed or are so much of a minority they have no voice.

You do know that when you go to university you don’t just spend your entire life in your lectures? There’s events and talks and general discussion going on in and around campus and everyone she’s heard from and knows is on the left.

It’s a general opinion.

Anyway, I want to move on from talking about this example, it’s obvious some of you will go after my sister to form an argument against me, which is par for the course here. Another left wing poster decided that they’d go after my kid as well as our kid, previously, so I want to divert it away from me and those I know now, I should have realised what a cesspit this place can be and instead of giving a personal example, I’ll stick to studies.

Your opinions on young men with conservative views is incredibly blinkered, you think this is true?

stereotypically young men have to bring up seemingly unsavoury views to a progressive audience. I wouldn't expect to hear someone start talking about "There's only 2 genders" , we need to bring back corporal punishment or get people picking up litter for their benefits in serious conversation amongst mere acquaintances.

You really need to understand your opposition more and appreciate that what you find unsavoury isn’t necessarily unsavoury.

This is the problem with the left, they don’t think politics is just a matter of opinion today, they think they are the purveyors of moral justice and are not subjectively correct but objectively.

A young man with conservative views to me is a great thing.

 

[Vic]

Why is it? You can tell you don’t hear from people with conservative views very often if you think there aren’t a huge number of conservative thinkers who are fed up with the Tories.

Just look at Peter Hithens for one, of many, he doesn’t even vote and wants the Tory party broken up.

It’s not revisionism, it’s the same as socialists abandoning Labour.

You really ought to broaden your horizons Vic.

The Tories are liberal, very much so. What conservative social policies have they introduced since 2010?

You can't play off "conservative" attitudes to sexual morality against the damage to family life and mental health from austerity and ideological stuff like the bedroom tax.

 

[Ban-jani]

You can't play off "conservative" attitudes to sexual morality against the damage to family life and mental health from austerity and ideological stuff like the bedroom tax.

I honestly don’t understand what you mean here.

I am not playing anything off. Sexual immorality does damage the family unit but that’s not Tory policy, although it is conservatism, this being a perfect example of why Tories are liberal generally speaking these days, apart from the odd back bencher.

Johnson is about as conservative as a dogging spot.

Austerity is neoliberalism, it’s not social conservatism and the Orange Book Liberal Democrats support very small government and they are liberal.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

You can't play off "conservative" attitudes to sexual morality against the damage to family life and mental health from austerity and ideological stuff like the bedroom tax.

seems others on here are perfectly happy to play off the personal views of people who lived a hundred years ago or more against their personal accomplishments, achievements and service they gave to this country to denigrate them and hold them to a standard they don't hold themselves to even today. It works both ways.

 

[Vic]

This is a continuation of a theme developed in the book Britannia Unchained.

The authors of that book were Conservative MPs
Priti Patel
Liz Truss
Kwasi Kwarteng
Chris Skidmore
Dominic Raab

It is a RW libertarian tract that excoriated the UK’s “bloated state, high taxes and excessive regulation” and, most memorably, derided British workers as “among the worst idlers in the world” (“We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”) The UK, it declared, should “stop indulging in irrelevant debates about sharing the pie between manufacturing and services, the north and the south, women and men”

It urged the UK post Brexit to become a Tiger economy akin to Singapore and its an advocate for what could be described as End Game Thatcherism in that it has an absolute belief in the freedom of markets to deliver.

Its Randianism on crack cocaine.

This post seemed more fitted here than in the anti-Starmer thread.

 

[Ban-jani]

This post seemed more fitted here than in the anti-Starmer thread.

And for once I agree.

The British are incredibly hard workers and some of the hardest on the continent of Europe.

We shouldn’t be basing our working lives on those in the subcontinent, who have less working rights and retaining a strong private life, outside of employment and allowing mothers to not have to work, is paramount to raising the next generation.

This is exactly why some conservatives are fed up with the Tories, everything is geared towards libertarian economics, rather than what’s crucial and that’s the social aspect of society, where I think the country needs to focus.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

What is wrong with you lot being afraid to actually quote me?

Are you all hoping I miss it and don’t respond?

I was blatantly giving an example, of an account, or what general life is like on campus and how swayed it is towards left wing thinking and how much conservative views are either repressed or are so much of a minority they have no voice.

You do know that when you go to university you don’t just spend your entire life in your lectures? There’s events and talks and general discussion going on in and around campus and everyone she’s heard from and knows is on the left.

It’s a general opinion.

Anyway, I want to move on from talking about this example, it’s obvious some of you will go after my sister to form an argument against me, which is par for the course here. Another left wing poster decided that they’d go after my kid as well as our kid, previously, so I want to divert it away from me and those I know now, I should have realised what a cesspit this place can be and instead of giving a personal example, I’ll stick to studies.

Your opinions on young men with conservative views is incredibly blinkered, you think this is true?

You really need to understand your opposition more and appreciate that what you find unsavoury isn’t necessarily unsavoury.

This is the problem with the left, they don’t think politics is just a matter of opinion today, they think they are the purveyors of moral justice and are not subjectively correct but objectively.

A young man with conservative views to me is a great thing.

I haven't said anything personal about your sister, you decided to use a secondary account of an experience.

You said she was a masters student, but you didn't say whether it was an academic or vocational course. Is it possible that there is just less conversation on campus when undertaking a masters course. Students are older and more likely to have established friendships and less interested in socialising with new people. They might have to be working at the same time as undertaking their course (and more than just 2/3 shifts a week). They are also more likely to live outside the area where there university is based.

Yes, I have met former colleagues who held those sort of Conservative views, one was an evangelical raised in the faith who had cultural and personal transphobic and homophobic views. Another was a passionate Brexiter who blamed the unemployed for his lack of pay rise.

I was being a touch playful and using absurdist examples but used the word "seemingly" to express that it might be taboo to share in a group of people you didn't know very well. But I have seen several of your posts expressing the gender position.

 

[Ban-jani]

I haven't said anything personal about your sister, you decided to use a secondary account of an experience.

You said she was a masters student, but you didn't say whether it was an academic or vocational course. Is it possible that there is just less conversation on campus when undertaking a masters course. Students are older and more likely to have established friendships and less interested in socialising with new people. They might have to be working at the same time as undertaking their course (and more than just 2/3 shifts a week). They are also more likely to live outside the area where there university is based.

Yes, I have met former colleagues who held those sort of Conservative views, one was an evangelical raised in the faith who had cultural and personal transphobic and homophobic views. Another was a passionate Brexiter who blamed the unemployed for his lack of pay rise.

I was being a touch playful with using absurdist examples and used "seemingly" to express that it might be taboo to share in a group of people you didn't know very well. But I have seen several of your posts expressing the gender position.

You did like the post though. Alongside the rogues gallery of other posters on this forum.

The post was actually a complete straw man of what I’d posted, which was more of a general view of campus life, rather than a survey conducted, which polled every single student, that claimed there isn’t a single right wing student on campus, I simply didn’t say that.

It is academic I think and she did her undergraduate in history, which involved a module on politics.

But I want to move away from personal stuff as people find it an apt target in the debate, whilst disingenuously changing the story...

It is entirely possible to hold a view that doesn’t align with the LGBT movement, whilst treating those people with complete respect.

Well if you’ve seen my posts, whilst they lasted, on the trans issue, you’ll know my view. That these people should be treated with compassion and patience and given all the support they need, but I think it does a disservice to them to encourage their gender dysphoria as anything other than a mental condition in wider culture.

There’s no “phobia” or hatred or bigotry involved in that view, I am concerned for the lives ruined through depression, which goes hand in hand with gender dysphoria. And you know I believe there are only two genders.

This is a personal view but my view on society politically is that these things should of course be perfectly legal and nobody should be persecuted, in a free society that prides itself on a variety of views.

It is none of the states business to stop people being trans and sexual preference is none of my business on a personal level.

 

[bluethrunthru]

and there you go.....

‘Free speech’ Czar Role linked to Toby Young’s Free Speech Union and US Right-Wing Funding Network

Nafeez Ahmed’s investigation reveals that the Government’s new proposal is inspired by attempts to suppress free speech about racism

bylinetimes.com

 

[meltonblue]

Why is your font getting bigger and bigger haha?

I didn’t mean her meeting Tories, I meant someone with conservative views which is actually a criticism of the Tories as over the last two/three decades, they have shifted towards liberalism.

But they’re not introducing political influence, other than policing campuses to ensure everyone is getting to speak and being heard and I think it’s very much needed. You’ve already admitted there is legislation in place to stop extremism, so you must somewhat agree with the state intervening.

Which Tories are against it?

I have absolutely no idea, I noticed after I posted to but couldn’t fix it!

Its covered already in terms of legislation around free speech, I don’t see that as the same as state intervention as that is then judged by the courts, not MPs.

Universities should be making the decisions, not the government or activist student unions.

I agreed with the previous universities secretary that didn’t want to be overzealous with the regulations in this space. Greening said similar too.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

You did like the post though. Alongside the rogues gallery of other posters on this forum.

The post was actually a complete straw man of what I’d posted, which was more of a general view of campus life, rather than a survey conducted, which polled every single student, that claimed there isn’t a single right wing student on campus, I simply didn’t say that.

It is academic I think and she did her undergraduate in history, which involved a module on politics.

But I want to move away from personal stuff as people find it an apt target in the debate, whilst disingenuously changing the story...

It is entirely possible to hold a view that doesn’t align with the LGBT movement, whilst treating those people with complete respect.

Well if you’ve seen my posts, whilst they lasted, on the trans issue, you’ll know my view. That these people should be treated with compassion and patience and given all the support they need, but I think it does a disservice to them to encourage their gender dysphoria as anything other than a mental condition in wider culture.

There’s no “phobia” or hatred or bigotry involved in that view, I am concerned for the lives ruined through depression, which goes hand in hand with gender dysphoria. And you know I believe there are only two genders.

This is a personal view but my view on society politically is that these things should of course be perfectly legal and nobody should be persecuted, in a free society that prides itself on a variety of views.

It is none of the states business to stop people being trans and sexual preference is none of my business on a personal level.

I've just read back Jma's post and he wasn't actually insulting your sister if you read it correctly.

I think you are getting into selective science here now. I don't expect that you can reconcile this with your Christian beliefs, but biological sex in animals is itself an evolutionary adaptation. Gender is also not the same as sex, it is how you present and how people treat you in relation to gender norms.

I'm not going to get into this linguistic semantics, it's an absurd point. It's a bit like trying to claim Palestine supporting cranks can't be antisemitic because they like the Palestines.

Transexualism isn't a mental health disorder, dysphoria is a psychological experience but it's not something that is something is something that you can discourage and make go away in the way you imagine. I've met many trans people from different backgrounds and they all have a common theme of experiencing a feeling that in they were in the wrong body from around 4 or 5.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I've never thought that you want to make trans people illegal. But this kind of position seems to be based out of ignorance and fixed in your own world views, and I don't think it is particularly helpful to people when it gets brought up as a new kind of section 28.

 

[jma]

And here we go, the left wing way, get personal and start calling people dumb. I know your snide comment about our kid is to try and get an angry reaction from me but you’ve just outed yourself as the idiot.

I didn’t say she claims there are no conservatives, I said she’d a) never met one and b) never heard an opinion from one

So no, you’re the dumb one, for failing to read and process basic English.

Can we also distinguish the fact that being a conservative or having those views doesn’t automatically mean you’re a Tory? I am and I haven’t voted for them in the last two times of asking.

I know you like to play identity politics and shove everyone in to boxes but it’s not accurate.

To be clear, you told a story about your sister designed to illustrate a point.

It is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. When this is pointed out you react with horror that someone refers to this fairy tale, that you inserted in the conversation.

If you are honestly claiming that a member of your family believes that they are at a university where "there are zero right wing views, no students, no lecturers, no speakers, nothing" then it is clearly you that is denigrating your family member as you are apportioning to them an utterly ludicrous belief that anyone with an ounce of sense knows in laughable and untrue.

Of course, you also know that such a claim about any university is nonsense but you choose to present it as evidence anyway as an example of your 'argument' then get all uppity when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out.

The rest of your pish about identity politics just proves how far down the rabbit hole you are on this.

 

[Ban-jani]

I have absolutely no idea, I noticed after I posted to but couldn’t fix it!

Its covered already in terms of legislation around free speech, I don’t see that as the same as state intervention as that is then judged by the courts, not MPs.

Universities should be making the decisions, not the government or activist student unions.

I agreed with the previous universities secretary that didn’t want to be overzealous with the regulations in this space. Greening said similar too.

I too don’t want the government having an overzealous influence either, free ideas should be able to grow in our education system, I just don’t think it can’t hurt to ensure the universities aren’t becoming too authoritative with one side of the argument, I guess we’ll have to see how this plays out.

You may be proven right or it may prove it doesn’t make that much difference, other than it slightly improving open dialogue.

 

[Ban-jani]

It is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. When this is pointed out you react with horror that someone refers to this fairy tale, that you inserted in the conversation.

If you are honestly claiming that a member of your family believes that they are at a university where "there are zero right wing views, no students, no lecturers, no speakers, nothing" then it is clearly you that is denigrating your family member as you are apportioning to them an utterly ludicrous belief that anyone with an ounce of sense knows in laughable and untrue.

Of course, you also know that such a claim about any university is nonsense but you choose to present it as evidence anyway as an example of your 'argument' then get all uppity when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out.

The rest of your pish about identity politics just proves how far down the rabbit hole you are on this.

I was talking about her experience there and I clearly meant right wing views weren’t being made, from lecturers, speakers, students etc. You can disbelieve it all you want but you don’t go to university and you have no idea what the university is like. You’re presuming whereas I am taking her objective view, as she agrees with your politics and not

Ahh the accusation of “rabbit hole”.

What a boring remark, it’s used to paint conservative views as extreme and attribute us to Trump’s extremists.

Pathetic.

 

[meltonblue]

I too don’t want the government having an overzealous influence either, free ideas should be able to grow in our education system, I just don’t think it can’t hurt to ensure the universities aren’t becoming too authoritative with one side of the argument, I guess we’ll have to see how this plays out.

You may be proven right or it may prove it doesn’t make that much difference, other than it slightly improving open dialogue.

And that’s the nub of it, like i said yesterday. Who’s more likely to be authoritative with one side of the debate - universities that exist for intellectual advancement or a political party that exists to get their views as widely accepted as possible in order to either get in to, or remain in, government.

 

[jma]

I was talking about her experience there and I clearly meant right wing views weren’t being made, from lecturers, speakers, students etc. You can disbelieve it all you want but you don’t go to university and you have no idea what the university is like. You’re presuming whereas I am taking her objective view, as she agrees with your politics and not

Ahh the accusation of “rabbit hole”.

What a boring remark, it’s used to paint conservative views as extreme and attribute us to Trump’s extremists.

Pathetic.

When your rhetoric is about the existential danger of "the radical left" and peppered with talk of "identity politics", stuff that the average person in the street has no contact with or interest in, cos they are irrelevant to our lives , then don't complain when you get compared to the other nutyy groups that spout such phrases.

As for your university story, if you can find any other poster on here who believes it and is willing to paint your sister is daft enough to think there aren't right wing students or not to understand that such views are, and always have been, a minority on almost every campus, then... Good luck.

My brother never met anyone Welsh at university but I'm not on here painting him as an idiot who believes that the Welsh are deliberately excluded from campus, that leeks and daffodils were banned or that there wasn't any Welsh people there because he didn't know any.

Your example/story was ludicrous and so is your faux outrage at this being pointed out.

 

[Rascal]

To be clear, you told a story about your sister designed to illustrate a point.

It is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. When this is pointed out you react with horror that someone refers to this fairy tale, that you inserted in the conversation.

If you are honestly claiming that a member of your family believes that they are at a university where "there are zero right wing views, no students, no lecturers, no speakers, nothing" then it is clearly you that is denigrating your family member as you are apportioning to them an utterly ludicrous belief that anyone with an ounce of sense knows in laughable and untrue.

Of course, you also know that such a claim about any university is nonsense but you choose to present it as evidence anyway as an example of your 'argument' then get all uppity when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out.

The rest of your pish about identity politics just proves how far down the rabbit hole you are on this.

At first I thought it was just me who thought he had gone down seriously strange rabbit holes.

Obviously not, he used to be a decent lad with reasonable views, since his Damascene conversion into Christian Evangelicalism he has become a fucking neo-con fruitcake who would be quite at home with the fruit loops of the American religious right.

 

[KPXBLN]

The Tories are liberal, very much so. What conservative social policies have they introduced since 2010?H

How are you defining conservative?

 

[Ban-jani]

I've just read back Jma's post and he wasn't actually insulting your sister if you read it correctly.

I think you are getting into selective science here now. I don't expect that you can reconcile this with your Christian beliefs, but biological sex in animals is itself an evolutionary adaptation. Gender is also not the same as sex, it is how you present and how people treat you in relation to gender norms.

I'm not going to get into this linguistic semantics, it's an absurd point. It's a bit like trying to claim Palestine supporting cranks can't be antisemitic because they like the Palestines.

Transexualism isn't a mental health disorder, dysphoria is a psychological experience but it's not something that is something is something that you can discourage and make go away in the way you imagine. I've met many trans people from different backgrounds and they all have a common theme of feeling that in the wrong body that they experienced from around 4 or 5.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I've never thought that you want to make trans people illegal. But this kind of position seems to be based out of ignorance and fixed in your own world views, and I don't think it is particularly helpful to people when it gets brought up as a new kind of section 28.

Regarding the evolution point, human evolution has developed lots of different dysphoria’s and mental conditions, most of them aren’t mainstream and are rightfully dismissed.

We’re never going to agree on this and all that will come of it is I’ll be banned from left wing Bluemoon.

I did say condition and not disorder, although I think there is a significant difference between different trans people’s views of themselves and the whole movement. Gender dysphoria is different from gender identity disorder.

I have seen interviews with trans people who know and say they’re not a woman but they want to live like one. Others actually think they are and their outside anatomy is wrong. I think there’s a difference that shouldn’t be ignored there.

You mention trans people you have met (see personal examples are effective) as being this way since age 5/6 but the majority of children who suffer from gender dysphoria change their minds, later in life and that’s why a section 28 type bill, solely focused on children, I think is very important.

The school in Brighton promoting this to incredibly impressionable 5 year olds are committing child abuse imo.

I am happy to meet you in the middle and keep this to adults.

 

[Ban-jani]

At first I thought it was just me who thought he had gone down seriously strange rabbit holes.

Obviously not, he used to be a decent lad with reasonable views, since his Damascene conversion into Christian Evangelicalism he has become a fucking neo-con fruitcake who would be quite at home with the fruit loops of the American religious right.

I thought I’m on ignore comrade?

Youre a communist, you don’t have a right to look down your nose at me.

I am Church of England, not Evangelical, for the 5th time now.

You accused me of going down a rabbit hole because I stated we should improve our asylum process and take more. Because you didn’t understand my point.

That is your problem, not mine.