Coronavirus (2021) thread

[PragueBlue]

I read somewhere over the weekend that there was talk about Van de Leyden losing here job over the AZ contract fiasco.....

I just feel sorry for those people who are already shit scared of vaccines, becoming terrified at the thought of getting the AZ jab after how the EU nations have reacted

Fortunately (compared to the EU in general) our AZ deliveries here in the CR have only been reduced by 40%. The government don't intend suspending its use and general population still seem quite in favour of it.

 

[Gabriel]

It isn’t politics. Norway is not an EU country and has suspended the AZ vaccine. Thailand has done the same. Thailand is not in Europe.

There are differing attitudes and cultures to vaccines with places like Germany having an ultra conservative approach, so any anomalous readings or spikes, no matter how low, will lead to suspension.

Not everything is a plot, it’s just different ways of doing things.

For the record I got jabbed with AZ on Saturday and am feeling fine :)

I did say a degree of politics.

 

[shemnel]

These countries 'hoping to resume' use after investigation - do they truly not understand how people think?

You infer a plane is unsafe and ground them all, then say a few days later, um oops no, actually it is fine. Our bad,

Everyone will just get on board and nobody rebook on another plane to be sure will they?

Your analogy will be put to the test soon as the previously beleaguered Boeing 737 has just started flying again the other day while the 777 is now grounded in some parts. Will people go looking for what plane their flight is? Probably not.

However, some countries just have different safety regimes. Maybe they feel they garner more trust by having very cautious regulators.

In the end it may all be that this was a bit overly cautious and on we go, but I'm a bit worried how this is descending into us Vs the EU.

 

[PragueBlue]

It isn’t politics. Norway is not an EU country and has suspended the AZ vaccine. Thailand has done the same. Thailand is not in Europe.

I think a Thai company is manufacturing the AZ vaccine for Thailand and the AZ vaccine constitutes the vast majority of Thailand's vaccine program. They started late on vaccinations (from the start of March I think) and would be struggling to get people vaccinated without it.

 

[unicorn]

Yes, had access but necessarily had it. They could have been on a ventilator for several weeks, were too weak to have the vaccine and either they or their carer may have said they do not want it or cannot have it. There are also potential issues of them only having one vaccine or were positive when they had the vaccine. I guess some are also so weak, they could die if they only had what others would consider mild symptoms.

You're right, there are a number of reasons why folk over 80 may NOT have had the vaccine (other than scepticism), and as Healdplace would remind us we're now down to low numbers of deaths (though still in the dozens).

But the NHS will want to know if the people over 80 still dying DID take the full vaccine. Of course, no protection can be 100%, and the reduction in the incidence of the virus in the community is as important as vaccination to risk.

 

[cleavers]

That sounds about right. Reports here are that AZ have cut their vaccine deliveries to Europe by 73%.

Well since none of them are giving it now, they won't need any supply anyway.

 

[PragueBlue]

Well since none of them are giving it now, they won't need any supply anyway.

I think most of the EU are still administering it. Here in the CR we need all we can get!

 

[BlueAnorak]

I’m normally pro-European, but I can’t believe how badly Europe has handled this. Seems very fishy to me that they are suspending AZ but not Pfizer, which has caused issues and even been linked to deaths in the US (I’m sure the vaccine didn’t cause this by the way).

Just heard a story from my brother-in-law that friends they know in Italy have reported large queues for vaccines only to be told that there are not enough doses in some cases. My gut feeling is that this report of possible issues has given health authorities a convenient excuse for some breathing space.

Still, I’m a cynical bugger.

According to MHRA yellow card data - there is not a single reported blood clotting event for either vaccine.in the UK to the 28th Feb.
17m vaccinations 11m Pfizer and 6m O-AZ

 

[BobKowalski]

I think a Thai company is manufacturing the AZ vaccine for Thailand and the AZ vaccine constitutes the vast majority of Thailand's vaccine program. They started late on vaccinations (from the start of March I think) and would be struggling to get people vaccinated without it.

I believe so, same with Australia who are manufacturing most of their own AZ vaccine.

I imagine this will prove a temporary hiccup, although it’s likely most European countries will be relying on the Pfizer and J&J vaccine rather than AZ due to ongoing production difficulties.

Hopefully by the end of summer we will have most of Europe vaccinated.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

A few things from that thread:
1. AZ results in less post-vax thrombosis than Pfizer OR Moderna
2. Blood clot rate for women taking the pill ~ 100 per millions versus AZ ~ 30 per million.

This is political, isn’t it?

If that data is correct then yes its very hard to come to any other conclusion. Pausing the rollout certainly isnt based on any scientific basis. Who would have thought It, politicians playing politics wouldnt exactly be a first would it.

 

[Healdplace]

HOSPITAL DATA

UK total:


Patients 7216 - it was 39, 248 at the peak on 18 Jan - (fall of 32, 032 in 56 days) :- lowest since 18 October

Ventilators 1017 - it was 4077 at the peak on 24 Jan - (fall of 3060 in 50 days) : lowest since 1 November


England only:-

ADMISSIONS:-

385 Covid admissions (12 March) - following 386, 449, 494 and 483 days before. 385 is lowest in many weeks.


PATIENTS:-

down 63 in day to 5976 v 7847 last week :- lowest since 19 October.

Peak was 34, 336 on 18 Jan (fall 28, 360 in 56 days)

Ventilators: Down in day 33 to 930 v 1236 last week :- lowest since 9 November

Peak was 3736 on 24 Jan (fall 2806 in 50 days)



Regions:



Patient // Ventilators // change in past 24 hours and v last week


East UP 4 to 566 v 781 // down 1 to 90 v 108

London UP 4 to 1185 v 1551 // down 10 to 298 v 379

Midlands down 21 to 1303 v 1736 // down 3 to 207 v 266

NE & Yorks down 8 to 985 v 1265 // down 7 to 115 v 169

North West down 10 to 992 v 1218// down 4 to 115 v 145

South East down 29 to 713 v 983 // down 8 to 75 v 127

South West down 3 to 232 v 313 // stays at 30 v 42


MOre down than up is a good sign for a Monday. Usually the lowest fall or even small rise from the weekend,

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It isn’t politics. Norway is not an EU country and has suspended the AZ vaccine. Thailand has done the same. Thailand is not in Europe.

There are differing attitudes and cultures to vaccines with places like Germany having an ultra conservative approach, so any anomalous readings or spikes, no matter how low, will lead to suspension.

Not everything is a plot, it’s just different ways of doing things.

For the record I got jabbed with AZ on Saturday and am feeling fine :)

The aim of all politicians is firstly to remain in charge. Pausing a vaccine on the made up grounds of safety when there is actually a shortage gives them somone else to blame for their own shortcomings in the vaccine roll out. If it isnt based on science then it can only be politics. Its that simple.

 

[Del_Bosque]

It isn’t politics. Norway is not an EU country and has suspended the AZ vaccine. Thailand has done the same. Thailand is not in Europe.

There are differing attitudes and cultures to vaccines with places like Germany having an ultra conservative approach, so any anomalous readings or spikes, no matter how low, will lead to suspension.

Not everything is a plot, it’s just different ways of doing things.

For the record I got jabbed with AZ on Saturday and am feeling fine :)

Norway is part of the EU vaccine procurement programme though

 

[Healdplace]

Your analogy will be put to the test soon as the previously beleaguered Boeing 737 has just started flying again the other day while the 777 is now grounded in some parts. Will people go looking for what plane their flight is? Probably not.

However, some countries just have different safety regimes. Maybe they feel they garner more trust by having very cautious regulators.

In the end it may all be that this was a bit overly cautious and on we go, but I'm a bit worried how this is descending into us Vs the EU.

I see that argument but there are differences here.

For a start you usually know its one of two vaccines in most nations and you do not know that with a flight. Plus you are offered a vaccine and book a flight by choice. I suspect if you could choose which plane you went on some might. Indeed I know someone who went a convoluted route just to experience flying on an Airbus 380.

Then there is the timing. An investigation into aircraft like the 737 MAX takes months or years and once resolved many will have forgotten the story. Unless this suspension only lasts days it is pretty pointless starting over as any damage will be done by then.

I hope you are right and this does not erode confidence as I think the AZ vaccine is a good, cheap, easy to use product and if it is safe (obviously that is the priority here) then it will save lives that will be lost every day that it isn't.

And if it isn't safe but has been given already to 20% of the UK population we are all in big trouble and the government is toast.

For the record I had it myself 5 weeks ago. Several family members have too. All of us without issue My best friend who is very vulnerable and had several blood clots in recent years is due her second dose soon. She will be having it without qualms.

So I am pretty confident this is not a big problem.

 

[mexico1970]

Had another letter today asking me to continue to stay at home and shield until further notice, have had one jab already hope it's not for too long now.

 

[shemnel]

I see that argument but there are differences here.

For a start you usually know its one of two vaccines in most nations and you do not know that with a flight. Plus you are offered a vaccine and book a flight by choice. I suspect if you could choose which plane you went on some might.

Then there is the timing. An investigation into aircraft like the 737 MAX takes months or years and once resolved many will have forgotten the story. Unless this suspension only lasts days it is pretty pointless starting over as any damage will be done by then.

I hope you are right and this does not erode confidence as I think the AZ vaccine is a good, cheap, easy to use product and if it is safe (obviously that is the priority here) then it will save lives that will be lost every day that it isn't.

And if it isn't safe but has been given already to 20% of the UK population we are all in big trouble and the government is toast.

It's not a good situation is it.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

The aim of all politicians is firstly to remain in charge. Pausing a vaccine on the made up grounds of safety when there is actually a shortage gives them somone else to blame for their own shortcomings in the vaccine roll out. If it isnt based on science then it can only be politics. Its that simple.

The decisions are not being made by politicians.

It's that simple.

 

[BobKowalski]

The aim of all politicians is firstly to remain in charge. Pausing a vaccine on the made up grounds of safety when there is actually a shortage gives them somone else to blame for their own shortcomings in the vaccine roll out. If it isnt based on science then it can only be politics. Its that simple.

It is based on science. ‘The German government's vaccines agency, the Paul Ehrlich Institute, said since Thursday it had noticed a "striking accumulation" of cases of a rare kind of blood clot on the brain, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) in people who'd just had the vaccine’.

Now, the figures are small, but Germany is ‘risk adverse’ hence the suspension. You can argue that the case for continuing outweighs the risk of not vaccinating, but that is not the model Germany operates under.

So, yes, it is that simple, but it ain’t politics.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Norway is part of the EU vaccine procurement programme though

not all politics in Europe has to be based arround the EU.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It is based on science. ‘The German government's vaccines agency, the Paul Ehrlich Institute, said since Thursday it had noticed a "striking accumulation" of cases of a rare kind of blood clot on the brain, cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) in people who'd just had the vaccine’.

Now, the figures are small, but Germany is ‘risk adverse’ hence the suspension. You can argue that the case for continuing outweighs the risk of not vaccinating, but that is not the model Germany operates under.

So, yes, it is that simple, but it ain’t politics.

But if you look at the wider data set that was presented in the twitter thread i posted, Those that had had the Pfizer vaccine experienced a higher ratio of blood clots than those that had the AZ. Something is not right Bob.