Don't wholly agree with you, but very funny post.
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And you ably demonstrate why the left will never win that argument. You/ they just name call--"crackpot" and don't produce any counter argument. Is it too difficult to cite the right's errors?Fumbs gave the perfect reply, a bit before this one.
It wont fail, because this is what all the culture war stuff has been leading up to in my opinion. I have a mate who cant wait for this channel to start because......cultural marxism,...lefty beeb....Lamestream media....blah blah blah...I just told him he was a fucking crackpot
Here's your starter for 10: why is the constitutional union so important to the right?
Rascal
El Presidente
The right wing is an error. The politics of the right is anti human, it forwards an individualistic approach to life that is counter to humanity. Humanity works as a collective, it is how we became the dominant species on the planet. For instance what would have happened if the man who invented the wheel had not met the men who invented the cart. They of course may have been the same person, but got lucky when they found a man who had tamed a horse.And you ably demonstrate why the left will never win that argument. You/ they just name call--"crackpot" and don't produce any counter argument. Is it too difficult to cite the right's errors?
Here's your starter for 10: why is the constitutional union so important to the right?
As for you question, the Union is important, Conservatism is inherently regressive, it loves tradition and the Union with the Queen as head of state offers the stability that Conservatism craves. I could also add it appeals to the notion of nationalist thought that runs through the Tory party, nationalist not in an aggressive Orwellian manner but in a softer sense of state being central to ones being whilst not overpowering ones sense of inate freedom. The Conservatives also see the Union as being central to its values of preserving tradition and cultural ancestry. Its not necessarily something I am at odds with, although I am more in favour of democracy being localised and I have come to the view that the UK is no longer a viable state but that is more because I believe that the democracy that is the UK is outdated rather than anything else. If there was a new constitutional settlement based on a federalist model then by all means the UK would be viable just as I advocated a far more federalised EU. It is democracy that is the problem the UK has, it leads to central governments that by deign of supposedly representing the whole of the UK actually only represent a small part of the UK which is the voters who inhabit the marginals. If I was Scottish i would be for independence, i am a Mancunian and I support Mancunian Independence as well because to many London is the UK and we have become the hinterland to an all powerful city state.
Here is a starter for ten, why do you think the Left think the constitutional union is unimportant?
Rascal
El Presidente
As for the other reasons as to why I called my mate a crackpot.And you ably demonstrate why the left will never win that argument. You/ they just name call--"crackpot" and don't produce any counter argument. Is it too difficult to cite the right's errors?
Here's your starter for 10: why is the constitutional union so important to the right?
He has bought into the cultural Marxist nonsense, and anybody who is taken in by such nonsense is a fucking crackpot and i have told him so.
First, interesting answer, thanks for your trouble.The right wing is an error. The politics of the right is anti human, it forwards an individualistic approach to life that is counter to humanity. Humanity works as a collective, it is how we became the dominant species on the planet. For instance what would have happened if the man who invented the wheel had not met the men who invented the cart. They of course may have been the same person, but got lucky when they found a man who had tamed a horse.
As for you question, the Union is important, Conservatism is inherently regressive, it loves tradition and the Union with the Queen as head of state offers the stability that Conservatism craves. I could also add it appeals to the notion of nationalist thought that runs through the Tory party, nationalist not in an aggressive Orwellian manner but in a softer sense of state being central to ones being whilst not overpowering ones sense of inate freedom. The Conservatives also see the Union as being central to its values of preserving tradition and cultural ancestry. Its not necessarily something I am at odds with, although I am more in favour of democracy being localised and I have come to the view that the UK is no longer a viable state but that is more because I believe that the democracy that is the UK is outdated rather than anything else. If there was a new constitutional settlement based on a federalist model then by all means the UK would be viable just as I advocated a far more federalised EU. It is democracy that is the problem the UK has, it leads to central governments that by deign of supposedly representing the whole of the UK actually only represent a small part of the UK which is the voters who inhabit the marginals. If I was Scottish i would be for independence, i am a Mancunian and I support Mancunian Independence as well because to many London is the UK and we have become the hinterland to an all powerful city state.
Here is a starter for ten, why do you think the Left think the constitutional union is unimportant?
Second, I have no idea is the short answer because I despise ideology and give it no thought. Political ideology is to me like religion. It holds certain tenets for which there is no logical basis. It is an emotional spasm. The only thing that united the fascists across Europe in the 30s was their hatred of marxism, and maybe, their belief that democracy was degenerate.
You will not be surprised then, when I say I don't recognize arguments divided into left and right. If I were to analyse my own political beliefs, some would be considered right of center and some left. My views on social policy may be considered by some to be extreme, but left or right, I don't know.
I agree very strongly with your support (ish) for a federal Britain with a written constitution and four equal parliaments.. I am a republican but hold out no hope in that direction. Megan Merkle rules ok.
That brings us back to the union. Currently the conservative party is split between Unionists and modern conservatives that dont care about the union. In a federal UK, England would have a conservative party in which unionism played little part and thus they would get on with the Scots, but maybe not with the unionists in NI.
Finally, guessing at your question: because ppl on the left tend to support democracy being local with power belonging to those affected by it. How am I doing?!
Rascal
El Presidente
We are all ideological, its just we might not subscribe to a particular set ideology as you yourself state. There are true Ideological believers of course, but they tend to be around fringe beliefs like Nazism, White nationalism, Anarcho-syndicalists and the likes. The vast majority live around the centre with various leanings both leftwards and rightwards.First, interesting answer, thanks for your trouble.
Second, I have no idea is the short answer because I despise ideology and give it no thought. Political ideology is to me like religion. It holds certain tenets for which there is no logical basis. It is an emotional spasm. The only thing that united the fascists across Europe in the 30s was their hatred of marxism, and maybe, their belief that democracy was degenerate.
You will not be surprised then, when I say I don't recognize arguments divided into left and right. If I were to analyse my own political beliefs, some would be considered right of center and some left. My views on social policy may be considered by some to be extreme, but left or right, I don't know.
I agree very strongly with your support (ish) for a federal Britain with a written constitution and four equal parliaments.. I am a republican but hold out no hope in that direction. Megan Merkle rules ok.
That brings us back to the union. Currently the conservative party is split between Unionists and modern conservatives that dont care about the union. In a federal UK, England would have a conservative party in which unionism played little part and thus they would get on with the Scots, but maybe not with the unionists in NI.
Finally, guessing at your question: because ppl on the left tend to support democracy being local with power belonging to those affected by it. How am I doing?!
As for the left and Unionism, there are different thoughts. Blair for instance thought he could save the Union by introducing devolution and to some degree he did, until Brexit came along. Again it goes back to the constitutional settlement though, Scotland quite fairly in my opinion resents rule from London and the UK is one of, if not the most centralised states in the Western world. A lot of people on the left also supported Sinn Fein (not the IRA) because Irish unity was a goal and Sinn Fein were a Leftist party. As you say its about local democracy. I think the City mayors have been a success, in Manchester we have control over part of the Cities health budget that means we can meet the needs of the people of Manchester which maybe different to the needs of the people of Dorchester. I support local democracy, the Conservatives however centralise power.
Its a good question though, i do think post COVID, there has to be a new Constitutional settlement, there has to be an overhaul of our democracy as too many voices are not heard and too few voices are heard too much. I would probably support PR and an elected 2nd chamber, a system of regional assemblies and more metro mayors with increased powers. That is just because the needs of different areas of the nation vary so much. We also need a new system of local investment banks that can drive regional growth. After brexit and post Covid the country has to change because our current system is outdated and if the union is to be saved, it has to be done soon. Otherwise Scotland will be off, Wales will maybe follow, Irish unity is possible and we are left with a rump English state dominated by London and the SE
Last word from me....promiseWe are all ideological, its just we might not subscribe to a particular set ideology as you yourself state. There are true Ideological believers of course, but they tend to be around fringe beliefs like Nazism, White nationalism, Anarcho-syndicalists and the likes. The vast majority live around the centre with various leanings both leftwards and rightwards.
As for the left and Unionism, there are different thoughts. Blair for instance thought he could save the Union by introducing devolution and to some degree he did, until Brexit came along. Again it goes back to the constitutional settlement though, Scotland quite fairly in my opinion resents rule from London and the UK is one of, if not the most centralised states in the Western world. A lot of people on the left also supported Sinn Fein (not the IRA) because Irish unity was a goal and Sinn Fein were a Leftist party. As you say its about local democracy. I think the City mayors have been a success, in Manchester we have control over part of the Cities health budget that means we can meet the needs of the people of Manchester which maybe different to the needs of the people of Dorchester. I support local democracy, the Conservatives however centralise power.
Its a good question though, i do think post COVID, there has to be a new Constitutional settlement, there has to be an overhaul of our democracy as too many voices are not heard and too few voices are heard too much. I would probably support PR and an elected 2nd chamber, a system of regional assemblies and more metro mayors with increased powers. That is just because the needs of different areas of the nation vary so much. We also need a new system of local investment banks that can drive regional growth. After brexit and post Covid the country has to change because our current system is outdated and if the union is to be saved, it has to be done soon. Otherwise Scotland will be off, Wales will maybe follow, Irish unity is possible and we are left with a rump English state dominated by London and the SE
It is possible, except perhaps at the philosophical level, to be free of ideology.
When Wilson became PM he was much derided for his promise to be a "pragmatic" government. I took that to mean they would do whatever they felt was necessary, irrespective of whether it was socialist, social democratic, liberal, or even conservative.
Wilson was lucky to have Roy Jenkins as Home Secretary. Jenkins said his reform programme was simply to create "a civilised society".
Despite some opposition from backwoodsmen , Jenkins:
-reformed the criminal law on homosexual acts,
- effectively abolished the death penalty
- abolished corporal punishment
- abolished censorship of theatre productions
- reformed the law to allow abortion.
Etc etc.
None of these reforms were idealogically driven but just based on common decency and widely supported by ppl of all shades of political opinion.
I would contend that it was his opposition that was driven by political ideology, whereas he, craving a just and civilised society, was not political at all.
The perfect fumble
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Last word from me....promise
It is possible, except perhaps at the philosophical level, to be free of ideology.
When Wilson became PM he was much derided for his promise to be a "pragmatic" government. I took that to mean they would do whatever they felt was necessary, irrespective of whether it was socialist, social democratic, liberal, or even conservative.
Wilson was lucky to have Roy Jenkins as Home Secretary. Jenkins said his reform programme was simply to create "a civilised society".
Despite some opposition from backwoodsmen , Jenkins:
-reformed the criminal law on homosexual acts,
- effectively abolished the death penalty
- abolished corporal punishment
- abolished censorship of theatre productions
- reformed the law to allow abortion.
Etc etc.
None of these reforms were idealogically driven but just based on common decency and widely supported by ppl of all shades of political opinion.
I would contend that it was his opposition that was driven by political ideology, whereas he, craving a just and civilised society, was not political at all.
And he expanded university education so that poor fuckers like me could get in.
He also created the Open University.
And he kept us out of the Vietnam war.
Rascal
El Presidente
Is the drive for common decency not ideological?Last word from me....promise
It is possible, except perhaps at the philosophical level, to be free of ideology.
When Wilson became PM he was much derided for his promise to be a "pragmatic" government. I took that to mean they would do whatever they felt was necessary, irrespective of whether it was socialist, social democratic, liberal, or even conservative.
Wilson was lucky to have Roy Jenkins as Home Secretary. Jenkins said his reform programme was simply to create "a civilised society".
Despite some opposition from backwoodsmen , Jenkins:
-reformed the criminal law on homosexual acts,
- effectively abolished the death penalty
- abolished corporal punishment
- abolished censorship of theatre productions
- reformed the law to allow abortion.
Etc etc.
None of these reforms were idealogically driven but just based on common decency and widely supported by ppl of all shades of political opinion.
I would contend that it was his opposition that was driven by political ideology, whereas he, craving a just and civilised society, was not political at all.
Oh no! It is a value shared by ppl with quite different ideologies.Is the drive for common decency not ideological?
Eisenhower and Obama would share it, but little else politically.
PS It is ideology which turns ppl away from these human values.
Thàts why I liken ideology to religion. Decency gets trampled in the rush to fulfil the idealogical imperative.
Last edited:
Rascal
El Presidente
Maybe I framed it wrong, is the means of achieving common decency ideological. There are different ideas of what common decency looks like. For the left common decency would be provision of a decent social safety net, for the right common decency could be framed in owning your home. But I suppose we would have to start with framing what common decency looked like.Oh no! It is a value shared by ppl with quite different ideologies.
Eisenhower and Obama would share it, but little else politically.
PS It is ideology which turns ppl away from these human values.
Thàts why I liken ideology to religion. Decency gets trampled in the rush to fulfil the idealogical imperative.
I think I need to sleep on this and give it some deeper thought.
I am ideological, I have my beliefs on what I think society should look like and the closest to my beliefs is Democratic Socialism as I do truly believe that it is the correct way society should function. I am passionate about my beliefs but I wouldn't consider myself that ideological that my beliefs result in some sort of religious fervour. Zealotry is not my thing as I am not so fervent that I dismiss other beliefs and ideologies out of hand.
L
L
lazerblue
Guest
re name the thread, crackpot corner
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Well - Simon McCoy is leaving the BBC for this mob - never say that one coming.
However - unsurprisingly - the start date has been put back until later in the year - highly predictable
However - unsurprisingly - the start date has been put back until later in the year - highly predictable
aguero93:20
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- Some gobshites in day-glo green and black.
Really? Always thought he was a smug entitled ****.Well - Simon McCoy is leaving the BBC for this mob - never say that one coming.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Really? Always thought he was a smug entitled ****.
Maybe he is being sent in as a ( not very ) undercover agent?
M
M
mat
Guest
McCoy moving there has surprised me.Well - Simon McCoy is leaving the BBC for this mob - never say that one coming.
However - unsurprisingly - the start date has been put back until later in the year - highly predictable
Big launch Dec 31 to celebrate the first official year of the Gammon era?
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
McCoy moving there has surprised me.
Big launch Dec 31 to celebrate the first official year of the Gammon era?
Just thinking about it now what about first broadcast to be live from the Festival of Brexit? Really.
BlueHammer85
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One big preach to Farage and Tommy fans. Let them have their own echo chamber news.
chesterbells
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All this comment & speculation about a channel that doesn’t exist nor have a start date.